10,000 ISRAELIS READY TO CLAIM FOR POLISH CITIZENSHIP AND POLISH LAND!

Polska dla Polakow, I understand but what do u mean Poland for Poles? Why only Poles?

AND BRITAIN FOR THE BRITISH

Could we have your definition of "a Pole", please?

And Afghanistan for the goat-herders

Who killed the Tsar? :

The whole record of Bolshevism in Russia is indelibly impressed with the stamp of alien invasion. The murder of the Tsar, deliberately planned by the Jew Sverdlov (who came to Russia as a paid agent of Germany) and carried out by the Jews Goloshchekin, Syromolotov, Safarov, Voikov and Yurovsky, is the act not of the Russian people, but of this hostile invader......................from the writings of British journalists Robert Wilton

Far from it,the welsh are the origional tribe of ancient britons and the english are dannish/german invaders :),but seriously,this was an assualt that the police new would go through quiker on a "race relations " charge than a simple commen assualt charge,they are hardly setting the definition for the OED .


well lets just line em all up an shoot em because a few old commies were jews......same rational lets line up a few thousand Poles coz Dzerzhinsky was a Pole and must therefore be responsible for the nkvd .......


sorry,which SS division is that in your avatar?


Was it lee harvey oswoldstein?
I dont know but it certainly wasnt Mr Gold from around the corner,sicko's like you lot seem to want to blame him for everything from the killing of jesus(incidently,Ive seen the movie,twas the Romans did it....) to the cancelation of Stargate SGC at season 11.....

So regarding my Polska dla Polaków statements:

To Seanus:
- Why should Poland give citizenship to non-Poles, or at least a large number of them? We shouldn't be encouraging Germans, Jews, Arabs, Turks, and Blacks to settle our country. Poland has a deep history and culture and we need to protect it from outsiders. I can understand a limited system of accepting foreigners as citizens, but only under special conditions.

To noimmigration:
- Yes, I agree, Britain for the British. If only the Polish government could clean up and improve our economy, we wouldn't be bothering you with waves of young laborers.

To omniba:
- A Pole is someone who is ethnically Polish. Meaning, someone whose parents were considered Polish. Of course, there are many more criteria and exceptions to those criteria (i.e. if you're half Polish but follow Polish culture, than maybe you could apply), but I won't delve into them here.

To isthatu:
- This isn't a symbol of any SS division. This is the symbol for the National-Radical Camp (Obóz Nardowo-Radykalny) and for the National Rebirth of Poland (Nardowe Odrodzenie Polski). This symbol was originally taken and changed from the pre-war Rodło symbol which represented nationalist Poles.

This is logic used by many authoritarians. Anyway where is freedom of speech? (even for idiots)


Of course I don't blame innocent Jewish individuals. However if many Jews find this OK to profane good name of the Polish nation, because few individuals (for sure less that number of Jewish commies) collaborated with Germans. I have full right to expect from them to attribute crimes of those Jewish communists on account of the Jews. If Kwasniewski must apologize for Jedwabne (average Pole don't even know where is this sh*t-hole) than perhaps some Jewish leader should apologize for Jewish communists? (not communism in general) Issue between Polish commies and the rest of Polish people is our internal problem.

About why some Jews were attracted to communism: In the 19th and 20th century, all of eastern europe was developing national awareness, based on ethnicity. So Polish nationalism centered around the Polish ethnic group and Catholicism (Polska dla Polakow!). Ukrainian nationalism centered around the Ukrainian ethnic group and their religion, hungarians, lithuanians, etc the same. Jews were squeezed out by this. They had no specific territory to become independent in. The other nationalisms defined themselves in opposition to the Jews. That's why Jews in Austro-Hungary were patriotic for the empire because that framework gave them a chance for a decent life, while ethnic patriotism left them out. But in Czarist Russia the government was blatantly anti-Jewish so the Jews couldn't root for them. What framework could Jews hope for (except emigrating to the US)?

Some felt that the only hope was our own national home in the only territory we had ties to: Israel. Others fell for the dream of a Europe without nationalism, where the "working class" would unite all people regardless of ethnicity and bring equality and freedom. The Jews who joined this movement did so in an attempt to erase their "separateness" and be not Jewish both in the religions AND the ethnic sense. This turned out to be a fake dream because the leaders, Lenin, Stalin and their henchmen, were interested in power and were no less ruthless than the czar. Stalin especially used anti-semitism as a tool whenever it suited him.

Pretty soon, most Jews became disillusioned. But some became enthusiastic participants. Among their victims were the Zionists, the Jewish labor movement (the Bund) and the masses of religious Jews. It's ironic and unjust that the crimes of these communists are blamed on the nation that they attempted to escape from.

You say that to blame the Polish nation for the crimes of individuals would be unjust as well. That's true particularly if those crimes were done against the interests and the feelings of the Polish nation, like those who collaborated with the germans. But the crimes of some Polish groups, such as the Endec before the war and the AK during the war, who both targeted Jews, even while fighting the Germans, were done in the name of Polish patriotism. Was this what Poles really wanted? The massacre at Kielce after the war seemed to say that it was. So Jews got the impression that after all they and the Poles went through during the war, nothing had changed. It was still "Polska dla Polakow" and certainly not a place for Jews to remain. Even though a new generation has grown up meanwhile among both peoples, it's an impression that takes a long time to fade away.

Your explanation why many Jews chose communism is logical and I basically I agree with this view. However if they already gained power, many of them supported Lenin's and Stalin's criminal policy. This was not for what communism stands in theory. Later one could say revolution eat its children, of course not only Jews.

One could say that some of those Jews saw internationalism as a solution for the sake of Jews as well. So this is not pure betrayal like Polish Nazi collaborators.


Endecja did not kill the Jews, rather supported some state politics to reduce number of Jews and increase number of Poles for example in universities. Anti-Jewish policy was based more on "economical" factors rather racial. Of course some fringe groups also existed like everywhere.

While those from AK could be pissed off seeing that many Jews collaborate with Soviets whom backstabber us. AK also had some number of Jewish members and organized some pro-Jewish actions. They liberated Jewish ghetto during Warsaw 1944 rising.


Kielce was inspired by commies, both Poles and Jews over there fought for survival. Sh*t happens sometimes.


But note what those Poles saw, many Jews in goverment and Polish KGB run practically by the Jews chasing for AK members. One could say that this was also Stalin plan, such personal policy.

If the AK targeted Jews it was because these Jews were communists, and therefore enemies of a free Poland, and not simply because they were Jews.


The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising was in 1943 – and the Ghetto was liquidated in the same year, surely. The Warsaw Uprising was in 1944. These are two separate events.

The Germans don't waste time.

On the fifth day of the Uprising, captain Jan announced a new objective for the company: to take the concentration camp Gesiówka, erected by the Germans in the vast, empty and wide open space of the burned out Warsaw Ghetto.

(...)
Taking Gesiówka would allow the liberation of its 400 prisoners, the obtaining of arms and the elimination of the German fire from the guard towers overlooking the streets and buildings on the fringes of the ruined ghetto. Two events made this endeavor mandatory and possible. First was a chance arrest, on the first day of fighting, of a Gestapo officer from the Gesiówka Concentration Camp who revealed that all of the prisoners were Jews, the last Jews remaining in Warsaw.

warsawuprising.com/savejews.htm

Thank you! I see what you meant now.

To Krazy Kazu, fair enough, Poland is steeped in history and traditions and I personally wouldn't like to see too many more foreigners here but u have to look at the rights of people. We are not talking large numbers coming into Poland. In Britain, esp in Scotland, we have accepted many Poles which has raised awareness of your culture and, in the process, has heightened curiosity. It would be unfair to be overly strict on Brits and other countries to turn them away due to an ostensibly NS agenda

Do you consider the ones that had to leave a country they loved as foreigners. We are not able to return, I believe Poland is going to give the eastern families 15% of their property value, not their homes (now Ukraine). Carol

I would prefer to treat that as a separate case, they are not who I had in mind. I was thinking about FREEDOM of movement more, those who can

That make some sense but the problem here is that once some Jews achieve something (Nobel prize for example) yours of course treat them as "one of us" even If they are completely atheistic.


Looks like Polonophobia is so deep inside of you that you don't even realize It anymore.

I wouldn't be so quick to call it Polonophobia as let's not forget July 4, 1946, when 40 Jews were killed by a Polish mob but the church and police just looked on. Poles were also blamed for not helping out Jews in Warsaw but I wouldn't blame them for this. Who, in their right mind, would put themself in front of a German gun/in the line of fire? I also know that Poles had some good reasons to distrust/dislike Jews who were wholesalers/sellers. As said in the novel Cal (Bernard McLaverty), 'there are bad buggers on both sides'. This was in reference to Protestants and Catholics

whats that got to do with the AK,they had disbanded and were on the run from the nkvd and lwp at that time.
Sure,the AK may have had its share of anti semites,but realy,who cares,this wasnt exactly ilegal but was never the less far from home army policy. How many catholic Poles did the "jewish partizans" in the east roast alive? Have a look at the Beilski brothers and tell me they wernt blood thirsty butchers,It wouldnt surprise me if a few inocent jews were killed in reprisal against those traitors. Before you start throwing wild acusations of anti semitism around regarding the AK it would do you all good to read up a litlle on the subject and you may also discover a large percentage of AK comand were jewish/part jewish. Always conviniently forgoton by those descendents of the extreme left wing Polish Jews who set up the state of isreal by terrorism them communist style collective farms.

In eastern Poland Jewish and Ukraine pointed out Polish military family and even assited in arrest/deportation. We shall not go into other actions of Jewish in Ukraine after the majority of Poles were gone. Read the book, "The dark side of the moon".

The Dark Side of the Moon is unique both in its content and time of publication (1946). Begun in 1943, its author, Zoe Zajdlerowa, had access to the official records of the Polish government-in-exile. She, however, wished to remain anonymous, perhaps out of a need to protect relatives in communist Poland. With a comment by Helena Sikorska, widow of General Wladyslaw Sikorski, and a preface by T. S. Eliot, the book covers the essentials of the history of Polish-Soviet relations until shortly after the end of the Second World War, including the formation and installation of the communist Lublin Government. It also depicts in moving language the trials faced by those Poles imprisoned, those condemned to a camp in the Gulag, as well as those simply deported. The political currents underlying the Soviet actions toward Poland as well as the formation of the Polish army under General Anders and of the Polish-Soviet Berling Army are also described. The book thereby gives a comprehensive overview of the fate of Poland from 1939 to 1945.

Isthatu, what on earth did you eat for Christmas dinner?

Carol

Carol, with respect this is from one person's point of view and we have to be careful when talking about history and people's interpretation of it.


In Kurów, near Puławy my wife's grandmother was a nurse for the Polish underground in the Second World War, and told a story of 23 Jews that were given up by the local people to protect themselves.

What I am trying to say is you never know what you will do in that situation to protect your family, and it is too easy for us to apportion blame looking back from our modern comfortable world.

My wife's grandmother was also given up by local people because she was a single woman and had a wounded Polish soldier in her house and some locals disapproved of this because of a single woman and man in the living in the same house together.

She spent the next 18 months in Majdanek concentration and extermination camp, standing in line each morning waiting for the tap on her shoulder that meant it was her time to die.

Luckily that tap never came!!

But she went back to the village of Kurów after the war and found the person who gave her up and asked her why.

The woman had a young child who was very ill and needed medicine and it was the only way that she could find a way to get the medicine.

My wife's grandmother asked if it saved the child and the woman replied it did, and my wife's grandmother said it was worth it then.

We only found out this story last year after her death, because she would never talk about the reason she was sent to Majdanek to protect the woman's family, and the woman told my wife's family after the funeral.

As I said it is too easy to blame people from the past nowadays without knowing all the facts, and books can only act as a guide, but never take them as fact because too often they are tainted by a person’s experience.

LOL,bearing in mind who the avatar pic actualy is I could make a sick joke,but I wont :)
(disclaimer,I have no love of Idi Amin Dada,but it is a cool pic from a very good film,"last king of Scotland" ,rent it now..)

Actually the book is a story no one likes to see. My grandfather was in reserve's in eastern Poland. My family was arrested in March of 1940 . Do you know what it's like being a Catholic Pole yet all we hear is Jewish Pole? Respectfully, Carol

So were many!!


And this is nothing special as many were.


I have heard nothing else but painful stories from Catholic Pole's about their experiences during and after the second world war, and then their suffering through the communist times first hand.

Not all of them had the opportunity to escape to America you know and live a life of luxury compared to the one's that stayed.

"Life of Luxury", Please think, this life you describe is just what communist Poland wanted you to believe. No it was not what you were told. What remained of the family (wife, two daughter and one son died) had no choice but to flee. You see "enemy's of the state" were killed if they stayed in Poland. To go to USA you had to prove you had means to support yourself. Try getting off a boat and you can't understand a word anyone is saying. An educated man that does not yet read or write English, work was farming and construction. Not easy jobs when you live with pain from war wounds.

At 51 my Grandfather lost everything he fought his whole life for. No one gave him a thing in the USA. His country he loved and put his life on the line for was gone. No, his farm in eastern Poland was not replaced in the USA. WW1's hero that fought and won independance for Poland "miracle at Wisla" front line. WW2's Ander Army, betrayed again. This utopia you speak of was just that. If the family's you talk of are out there I would love to hear from them. Carol, USA

All of history is based on an accumulation of single views, so one person’s interpretation of history is as good as another’s and adds to the general information. There is also the obvious usefulness of having different points of view – this is the basis for a real understanding of any situation.

The fact that someone cites just one source doesn’t mean that there aren’t other sources mirroring the same view. If every person here quoted every single source from where they have gathered information there would be no discussion in this Forum – just endless lists of links and sources.


Indeed very many were, but who knows of them? This is the whole problem, surely, that there are those who are constantly lamented and “First Class Victims” while others are dismissed as “nothing special” - and the “nothing specials” appear to come from the Polish Catholic group, as a rule!


Escape? These people didn’t escape – they were arrested and deported.

Actually, Cardinal Wojtyla was one of the biggest offenders in this regard, when he caved into Jewish pressure and removed the crosses placed at Oswiecem by the nuns, as a memorial to the Catholics who were killed there.

"Holocaust" = Jewish victims, why did they leave our families out?

Carol

Because Polish families are not Jews...the majority of Poles love Wojtyla/John Paul II for
what he did for Poland in the fight against Communism, but there were many factors involved...Wojtyla apparently had great sympathy for, and/or was influenced by Jewish

elements...his mother was reportedly a Jewish woman from Lithuania.

Can we once and for all put this to bed,Poland did not exist in WW1.Polish independance day was 11/11/18,the same day WW1 ended. What you will find,but maybe not like to admit,is that if he did fight in WW1 it would have been either with the Russians or the Germans/Austrians.A tiny legion fought in France on the "right" side,but that was it.The battle on the Vistula had no part in WW1 at all,period.

Yes,no one doubts Pilsudskis greatness,but,he fought for the Austro Hungarians in WW1, Polands fate was not in Polish hands untill 11/11/18 when Germany was ordered to pull out and "russia" was tearing itself apart in a civil war. The "cud na wisla" was in the Soviet /Polish war,a totaly seperate war from WW1.