Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet?

That might be but I live here now and I grew up in a socialist totalitarian state and I know the difference...the EU is surely neither!


And being a federation in no way implies to be a socialist totalitarian state (for example US..Germany...). Actually socialist totalitarian states need a strong center to be able to rule with a strong hand aka the party leader, not strong federal regions. They are always centralist, not federalist!

I don't care if they vote for leftists since I don't live there nor ever planning to move there.

What I know is that if the elect LePen that would mean FREXIT, which would directly lead to a collapse of the whole [ever tighter] EU since it cannot really exist without France.

That would be a favorable turn of events for Poland.

You misunderstood what I was saying. If you think that the treatment of the demonstrators in Paris looks "totalitarian", then you need to watch what would happen in the USA if the same kind of people were running rampant in the streets. The Euro cops are all little peaceniks in comparison.

I'm not so sure...after all they have the Brexit-Show to watch now. And I very much doubt there would be ever a majority in France to find for that...in Germany either.

But you are right, without France and Germany there would be no EU...

Why do you think Poland is better off alone, is beyond me though!

Not alone but in Europe of national states. With some friends around us but also a few old enemies, like Germany, which will have to collaborate with Poland since now we've got a strong economical connections.

Free european single market without ideological and political frame, just and economical [and military but only within NATO] cooperation. A free Europe in which Poland would flourish.

And don't give me that old song: "do you remember what happened in Europe before the EU" because that would only prove that Germans are barbarians that needs to be caged forever.

And that worked so well in the past...


Which strong economical connections?

And you really think Poland all on it's own could hold a candle to Germany economically?

According to stats Poland [in 2016] was an 8th global export partner and 6th import partner of Germany.

Furthermore, Visegrad 4 combined is a bigger trading partner of Germany than France. And France is a 2nd export and 3rd import partner of Germany.

This only increased in the last 2 years and will increase in the future.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_Germany

And wer'e back to the German problem. Germany will always economically dominate its neighbors while being unable to dominate them socially and politically (with resentment steadily building on both sides)

The EU was planned as a way to domesticate Germany and turn its energies toward building friendly relations with the rest of the continent but has recently morphed into an economically dominant Germany - again trying and failing to dominate its neighbors politically and again failing and instead creating resentment on both sides.

A big problem is that Germany has no soft power - it's as irrelevant culturally to Europe as Mexico is, maybe more so. This makes its political maneuvering all the less palatable to its neighbors.

That plan was good and sound and extremely successfull....leading to the most peaceful and stable period in Europes history.


For the resentment...that has less to do with Germany or the EU but with human psychology...the fear, suspicion, mistrust and plain jealousy of the bigger, better, more successful.

The only thing Germany could do to lessen that resentment would be to break itself up in many poor parts...then that resentment would change direction to the next bigger thing.

Ask the US or any other bigger power...it comes with the existence. And Great Britain before the Brexit, back in it's day as an world spanning Empire, got the same kind of world wide resentment. It's part of the game...

A future economically and politically successful and with that influential Poland would soon get the same treatment...People will then watch Warsaw...and seeing it as the source for all their problems...would protest polish dominance...would start to fight the polish yoke..it would be Germany then which would gain alot of sympathies...and so on...and so on...and so on...

That's not true cause the UK was successful at building and maintaining a world empire for a few centuries. Poland has also had a 1 million square kilometres commonwealth for a few centuries.

That's something that Germany was never capable of.

...and, man, did the idiots pay for it dearly. Sometimes, before you give out passports to what looks brown and prays five times a day on a funny carpet, it's good to be sober and bang your head on the wall at least six times. When the headache is gone, ask yourself this: what if all of that Pakistani scum decides to move in with us and likes it enough to never leave. Duh.

And it got resentment abounds...it's vassals fighted it...they all wanted and got their independence. It was only a happy place without any resentment through the rosy glasses of today, with the Empire long gone.


Plus lotsa resentments!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Lithuanian_Commonwealth


The ukrainian yellow vests? :)

The partitions never could have happened if it had stood strong and unified...

The point is that it lasted for centuries before it ended.

German multinational political projects don't last. And you have to answer yourself why? Because you're so awesome that nobody can stand your awesomeness like you claim?

Or maybe there's something else.

Na ja...the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation was founded in the year 800 and got officially dissolved in the year of 1860....I would call that longer lasting...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire

For me much more fascinating is the german Hanse though...an extremely successful economical union of trade guilds from Northwest and Central Europe from the 14th till to the 17th century...a kind of an early EU without all that politicks...and quite long lasting too...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League

Slogan that distort the truth. It was very strong for 400 years. Every pollical entity has it better and worse moments.


I told them (our German friends on PF) what they lack but they don't believe me. Well... they are like Russian in that regard they think they are so awesome but the world is jealous and unfair and conspire against them.

Totally agree...and at the end the vultures were ready to rip the corpses to pieces.


Well..just wait till a polish Commonwealth v2 will come to pass. And Poles will find themselves in the exact same position as Germans right now...resented just for being the strong and successful ones (by the weaker and less successful ones). :)

Hanza was an economic union which benefited all of its members that's why it lasted. Thanks to Hanza Gdansk became the biggest and the richest port on Baltic Sea.

And also I wouldn't call it a "German Hanse" since it originated in Netherlands (Holland). See, that's another example why Germans are so annoying :-)


They don't believe you because


:-)

Nope, it's definitely the "german Hanse"...after all Danzig was german speaking then and so was the lingua franca of the Hanse, middle low german...and it's HQ was in Lübeck.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League


And I can't help it that we Germans have such an illustrious history...the main reason you find us to be so "annoying"...deep jealousy becoming resentment, even hate!

*cuddles Spikey*

....so..with that I take my bow for a few hours...work waits..

I see, you're specifically speaking about "German Hansa" which was one of a few hanseatic leagues, albeit the biggest one. And also Gdansk belonged to Poland since 1454 (after 150 years of Teuton occupation) while still being a part of Hansa league.

But lets not forget that the very first Hansa group originated in Netherlands and was founded in Flanders in order to trade wool with England.

We, whites, should stop bickering and realize that, as a race, we are under assault from the outside and from within, the latter being a lot more dangerous as it is a self-inflicted form of suicide in slow motion.

That is why, as a Pole by birth and an American by choice, I often wake up with that exact thought on my mind despite the fact that nothing dramatic will happen in my lifetime. This is also why I hold no grudge against the Germans and the Russians. I regret that, because of the DC neo-cons always looking for the next enemy, traveling to Russia is not safe for me now.

To see how it works, just look at the once-proud American Indians and what happened to them.

I can imagine Germans living in reservations and running casinos. But I think islam forbids gambling so instead they'll live in reservations and pay Jizya tax for non-believers :-)

Seriously though, if Germans in general didn't have such a totalitarian minds it would be much easier to cooperate with them. Our visions of the future of Europe are completely different. Furthermore Germans are hostile to Polish traditionally conservative customs and are constantly trying to influence Polish politics.

There's no platform for understanding between our nations. Only a mutual economical benefits unite us.

Which is now slowly and surely drawing to a close.... (unless there are changes I don't see happening)


Especially since bigger, better, more successful are inseparable in the collective German psyche (not just German it's universal to some degree) but Germany can't get any bigger (by peaceful means) and it's not better than other countries... just richer (when the system is rigged in its favor)


There's lots of other things it could do, but they're either directly counter to German interests or require a cultural power which Germany doesn't have. For all its economic power modern Germany is a cultural non-entity (which lessens its potential soft power)

What do you mean by that? That they are unable to spread their culture beyond German borders? If yes: I believe that there is only one cultural power left in the world anyway, and that is the USA. They export their lifestyle (music, movies, fast food, social media, smart phones, vulture capitalism...) to every country on the planet, and it slowly takes over and ultimately ruins unique cultures everywhere. Poland, Germany, Japan and even China - in some respect they all look the same now. The current administration claims to be anti-globalism, but in reality they favor it when it comes to their cultural dominance in the world.

No, there are regional powers too. In Asia South Korea is a major cultural power (music, soap operas, movies, Turkey is doing fine in the middle east, Nigerian movies are watched all over Africa...

Even in Europe any particular germanic Scandinavian country has a bigger cultural footprint than Germany, a former cultural colossus. Name a German movie you've seen recently, or tv program, or music, or a novel by a German writer... There was babylon berlin on tv (entertaining nonsense) and.... what else?

Of course there are regional influences, too, but if you look around you will notice that most of the young people nowadays want to emulate American culture. I travel on a regular basis to Asia, Europe and South America, and cultures there have changed significantly over the past 20 to 30 years. You hear American music on most stations, everyone has a freakin' smartphone, McDonald's and Starbucks are everywhere, just to give you a few examples.


"Look Who's Back". You'll have to watch it in German though to truly appreciate the movie.

imdb.com/title/tt4176826

The only cultural power in the world is Islam. No one can stand up to it.

Islam splits the world into two divisions:-

Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb

thoughtco.com/dar-al-harb-vs-dar-al-islam-250224

and you can see Dar al-Islam gaining ground everywhere (apart from Poland - at least for the time being...)

Depends on your view point...I gather you don't speak German, so you don't watch german TV nor see german movies, nor listen to german music.

For you that "cultural collossus" only makes itself known when it gets translated into English! :)

It's the same with China...I don't speak Mandarin (nor do I plan to) so I don't know sh't about their pop stars and their chart breaker...but that doesn't mean they don't exists and have more fans and followers than anything you could come up with.

Just an example..did you ever hear of Helene Fischer? I doubt you have, but she is a big superstar in all of german speaking Europe (and more Europeans speak german as their native language than english)...in the latest Forbes ranking she earned more than most of the super stars of then english speaking world...but you most probably never heard a song of her.

theguardian.com/music/shortcuts/2018/nov/21/helene-fischer-schlager-superstar-the-richest-singer-youve-never-heard-of

The same with polish art and culture. Do you really think the Poles have nothing of value to show to the world just because you don't know any of it because it's in polish?

What does that all mean? Nothing at all! :)


Well, that's already alot...and quite important. I wouldn't downtalk it.

And for the rest the old saying held still true: Nations have no friends, only common interests! That's how it always was, is and will be...

Germany has recently produced several artists who became very successful internationally (Jörg Immendorff, Gerhard Richter et al.).

Maf one reason for that difference is that the German speaking market is big enough for artists, writers to be successful and rich without caring if it will sell to people in other countries. There is a very thriving literature in German, a big movie scene and a very developed art world.

As for cultural imprint then classical music and modern philosophy are basically dominated by Germans and Austrians (including Jews of course).