Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet?

It wasn't that. It was mostly male supporters of PiS and football ultras, with a small minority of women and children.


Except most EU countries don't want that. You'll notice that despite all the rhetoric from Greece, when the time came, they submitted rather than go it alone, and for good reason.

Good point, Atch:-)

The Poles and the Irish do indeed have lots in common; their bloody, intense, often tragic, struggles for independence against overwhelming odds which they both still managed to vanquish, their Catholicism, above all, their tenacity!

Typical liberal/lefist/progressive answer.You can't deal with them, you can't reason with them. You can't negotiate with Progressives. It is like playing chess with a pigeon. The pigeon knocks over all the pieces, then it sh!ts on the board and then struts around like it won the game.

Playing checkers with ultra-conservatives is also a challenge; first they have to learn to count...much less to read:-)

I don't agree with the "progressive" agenda either, at least in whole, however, many are at least in a positive direction of not intentionally undermining

those who wish to advance in society.

Both indeed tend to go overboard, frankly! Ultra leftists are surely as unthinkingly doctrinaire as ultra rightists.

I couldn't word it better.

Yet when you let them talk, and stick to the facts, they will start making fools of themselves sooner rather than later. The goal is not to convince the troll but the others who may read it.

Let him talk and reap the benefits :-)

There are conservative "trolls" as well, you know.

Just a word about facts; there are lies, there are damned lies, and there are statistics. If you wanna tell a wopper, stats will do it.

As I say, either extreme is bad, there must be a middle ground, moderation in all things.

Lyzko, to me Nationalism is a moderate way in this crazy modern world. Especially such a type of nationalism which is dominant in Poland and which is based on Christian Personalism.

It lies in the middle between extreme Chauvinism such as Nazism/Fascism and Neo-Marxism.

I am what some of you would class as a "Plastic Pole" and my wife is a "Plastic Paddy",we were both born in England,count ourselves as British but because of our cultural upbringing,find it difficult to call ourselves English.....my wife and I have often talked about the similar histories of The Irish and The Poles....even to some of the cuisine.....but I think one big difference was Communism....that really messed The Poles up.

The Poles have kept their culture intact,but The Irish have done a better job of it.
I love Irish culture as much as I love Polish culture.

I for one prefer "patriotism" for several of the reasons mentioned thus far on this forum. It's less aggressive and more culturally based to my likings.

As an American, I feel a degree of patriotism, though surely I don't feel my nationality is superior to another, advantages that lie in both societies considered.

Partiotism is healthy.
Nationalism suggests superioriry.....not good.
But if you are patriotic,there must surely be a part of you that thinks,that your country is at least as good as anyone else.

For sure, Milo. Can't argue with ya there.

I've seen a definition of patriotism being "working towards the common good". I agree with that - for me, a good patriotic attitude is to do everything you can so that you make things better for everyone. Stuff like burning rubbish or cheating on taxes is obviously very unpatriotic, while volunteering (for instance, with kids or lonely old people) is a good thing.

For instance, sitting on a tram swearing and drinking is clearly ruining things for everyone else, so such a person should be denounced as unpatriotic. The person who gives an old/pregnant person his seat - that's patriotism, as their actions are clearly making life better for others.

Agreed.

Hmmm. Delph.

Isn't the scenario you're describing simply a question of good manners, etiquette, and basic human decency?

Yes,and loving and supporting your country at the same time.
That is true patriotism.

It is, but if everyone lives their lives that way, you have a pretty decent country. Switzerland is a fantastic example of this - they have rules for everything, but those rules exist to make life better. For instance, my friend lives in a place where it's a no-no to carry out flat renovations, except during normal working hours. So, no-one wakes you up on a Saturday/Sunday morning drilling at 7am (as happens frequently in Poland).

Poles seem to think that this sort of thing limits "freedom", but in reality, Poles are the ones who have to live in a rather chaotic environment in which everything is possibly allowed or tolerated, meaning they have no freedom at all.

The amount of trash in the forests in Poland is sickening :(

What if you as a Brit give up your seat on BR to a Pole or a Frenchman, is that being "patriotic"?? Fail to grasp the usage distinction here, honestly, I'm not trying to

nitpick.

Now I see the point, Delph, I hope:-)

Working together is surely a part of teamwork and being patriotic DOES mean supporting the best in one's country.
OK, got it finally. Hate to appear thickLOL

Miroslaw, that's a common misconception.

Chauvenism, such as Nazism and Fascism suggests superiority.

Nationalism simply states the love of your nation and Patriotism means a love of your country.

The distinction escapes me:-)

@Spike31

I don't really get the point you are trying to make.
And this is coming from someone who agrees with most,if not all of your posts.

I think he's just being a tad precious on the latter point, Milo.

Not much love going on among Polish nationalists, that's for sure.

"Germany, the richer regions give to the weaker regions. The weaker regions are much better off because of this...that is already happening in the EU (called EU funds wandering from the net payer to the net receiver) but would even more so in a USofE."

Right! For instance Poland :Germany's colony in not so distance future and speaking of richer, generously giving (Germany, altruistic angels from haven.)
They neglect sleeping ,so intense is desire to give, to find enough naïve suckers, to order them to bend over. What a wonderful game of take and give.

Angela not totally satisfied with stubborn Poland but then so what, Europe is full of suckers

Modern media and education systems have taught us to confuse meanings and definitions of simplest things.

Let's see what wikipedia has to say on this subject. And since wikipedia is far from right-leaning source to say the least there's no pro-right bias here: copy-paste=removed

That's where the devil lies. Chauvinism such as nazism and fascism is based on hating and eliminating other nations and not just loving your own. Many media outlets wants to put a " = " sign between Nationalism and Chauvenism/Nazism/Fascism which is simply not true.

Basically Patriotism puts an esteem on the love of your homeland, Nationalism on the love of your nation and Chauvinism such as Nazis and Fascism on inviding and eliminating "competing" nations.

Let's say there's a village and in that village there are three families.

The father of the first family loves his land, he cultivates it and take care of it.

In the second family father loves his bloodline [his children] the most and takes care of them.

And in the third family the head of a family, coincidentally named Adolf, hates both of his neighbors. He kills the children of his neighbours and then torch their houses and stables.

Definitions do vary:-)

Spot on. The globalists everywhere and the enemies of Poland, in particular, are trying their best to make "nationalism" part of hate speech. Just as they succeeded with "illegal aliens" in the US, where that term is now verboten. Poles should never, ever give in to such pressures and use that word as often as possible.

If "nation" and "nationality" are hate-free and OK, so is "nationalism". One country's bad experience should never be a factor at other places.
If we accept this sick logic that "nationalism" is evil, the terms like "camping", "chamber", and "concentration" should also be viewed as hateful and avoided.

Globalization is the lazy person's answer to "progress", in actuality, "regress", a step backward.

No, it's not and I am no lazy.
Globalization is a devious scam known as "free trade" - which translates into they make we buy - meant to lower the wages here by forcing Americans to compete with the near-slave labor elsewhere.

The other swindle of globalization is bringing the third-world labor to the US to compete with the Americans here at home. Hence, the "bi-partisan" swamp happily resisting the wall and all forms of immigration. One side - for cheap labor, and the other - for the future votes in an attempt to make the US a one-party hellhole. Like Chicago.

Who forces you to buy? You always need two to tango.

That's one of the best points you've ever made on this forum Delph - brilliantly put.

I had to mess with your wording a bit to fit the quote in - sorry :)

As teachers, we both know, that you need frameworks for communities to live by. Otherwise it's exhausting and unhealthy for everybody.