GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE!

Now let's use some Latin alphabet and I'm okay with that! :)


Heeeeey! :)

Is really known what colour skin these humanoids had? They died out. They did not contribute anything to humankind as we know it. Crow is more closely related to Thabo Mbeki than any Neanderthals who roamed prehistoric Europe. Or maybe there was a small handful of survivors, some of whom post on PF.


Am I still allowed to stalk you?

Really, who cares?

i telling that all the time


we had debate in case with penis problems because of germanization. Same way, brain can be affected and one can go crazy, irresponible for behavior


my cat don`t care that`s for sure. How about you?

Bratwurst Boy, as an impartial observer, I gotta say you've convinced me. Good work on backing up your arguments.

I don't know why people (in this case poles) get all butthurt about Kopperlingk being German and not Polish, like it really changes their day to day lives. It all seems so utterly childish to me, but then again, I wasn't raised with a nationalist pov.

Nah, great persons as role models benefit a country's education, its culture and its overall health more than trillions of USD freebies from the IMF. 'The right to be inspired' is certainly not a matter of childish importance, it can make a deadly difference between a poor, emasculated nation and a vibrant, initiative and creative one (some cases even between a dishonorable and an honorable one). In an ideal world, great (in the most wholesome meaning) persons are stateless and they would inspire the whole lot instead of some pieces of communities here and there. But as we are living in reality, fierce competition for 'inspiration property'between nations is natural, and in the viewpoint from within a country, it is even much obligational (you are fighting not only for your pride and inspiration, but also for your children's and their children's...etc).

Therefore, Poles have right and obligation to fight for the 'ownership' of Pan Kopernik especially when the German vice-president of the mentioned space program Verheugen, is the one who threw the gauntlet first* (who certainly has a dim view of sharing!) At such a state, suffering being called petty is actually a prettier prospect than losing about thousands of young talented scientists in the future (of course, as long as Chopin is still Polish, those thousands can be fine pianists instead!) Anyway, time to yell "To arms, Poles!"

*Let's see what Verheugen said "Kopernikus was also a true European: he wrote in Latin and German and studied, lived and worked in several different countries in Europe." A rather sophisticated hypocrite, eh! In one sentence, he managed to both stress that Copernicus was German and this Germanshould be a model, a pride of Europe and Europeanization! Why on earth that he insists to use a German (and provincial) name for the one he deems "a true European" and for a project that is even more quintessential European despite the Latin version being overwhelmingly popular in Europe and in the world? A Polish EU MP probably had the best answer: "by using the German spelling, Verheugen falsifies history and betrays either a lack of awareness or bad intentions". Nuff said.

eubusiness.com/news-eu/1223570827.01

ec.europa.eu/kopernikus/overview.htm

He wasn't. Almost everywhere around the world he is identified as Polish. The whole "Germanization" of Kopernik started in 19th century, when such nonsense was promoted to give Gerries some reasons to be proud of themselves and boost the unification process. One of the funniest things made up in those times was "He didn't even speak Polish!" crap... let me guess, Hans Andreas and Helga invented the time machine, traveled a few centuries back, met Kopernik, asked him something in Polish and he shouted "Nicht verstehen !" ? Even If he wasn't Polish, such a brainy guy living in this part of the world would definitely learn It. And If Gerries had had some real arguments, they wouldn't have invented such nonsense.

I have heard that Bolek and Lolek were actually german.Is this true?

People look at this issue from a biased perspective of our times. At that times there was no developed concept of nationality, while Copernicus was just loyal servant of Polish king. Nationality is how you consider yourself and not how others think about you.

his father was from Cracow ... anyway

When we talk about language:
Polish language in writing was created by Mikołaj Rej (1505-1569)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikołaj_Rej



Most people in Poland were writing in Latin in Kopernik's times.

Excuse me, but aren't we all the same human beings?

You just love to have something to bicker about don't you? If it's not about German people, then it's about Jewish people, if it's not about Jewish people, it's about Slavic people..

Kopernik. Copernicus. Whatever? He spoke German. Does speaking German make you German? I don't know? If you're born in Poland, but raised in Germany and are accustomed to German culture and traditions, does that makes you Polish? I don't know?

Pointless? I'm sorry to squash your discussion but if you were born on this planet, then that's good enough for me. Why can't people be proud of humanity and be proud of all the great minds from History? How about that?

Maybe in about a few decades there will be no England, Germany, Poland, France or Holland.. Who knows it'll change into the United Nations of Europe and then what? Are we then going to bicker about the Germanicness or Slavicness of people who still carry a Polish or German surname?

Maybe we will all speak Polfreglish by then? (It's in the making trust me, only smart people know this!)

LOL

I was born in Holland, does my name look Dutch to you? Not really. Seriously, who cares? Does my name makes me French? Does the fact that I was born in Holland make me Dutch? I don't know, maybe I prefer the weather in Spain? It's not where you're from, it's who you are. It's where YOU feel at home.

My point? We're all Europeans. Or better yet, human. Copernicus (Or Kopernik if you prefer!) is an historical figure of some importance and he died ages ago so we can't ask him if he felt Slavic or German..

End.

You cannot apply your modern, nationalistic mentality to the Copernican era. You cannot successfully apply your thinking to Copernicus because he existed at a time when people generally didn't think like you do. You could humble yourselves some and learn a thing or two.

You will just have to share Copernicus with others, like it or not, just like the rest of the world learns to share. You need to learn to share.

I think Copernicus doesn't really care;)

Cool. Do you have a rainbow flag over your house ?

another waste of space

I'm jealeous of Arien's smileys....

It probably doesn't answer your question?


This whole thread is? So I might aswell agree with you again!

No?


Shall I give you a tutorial then?

sure, he is dead, he was a great scientist and his presumed nationality is not relevant to Polish issues in any practical way.

I he was alive maybe he would not want anything to do with neither Poles nor Germans, since during his time "nationality" concept was not something one would argue about or even care.

It became an issue of legacy ownership, nothing more.

I think he did care because he was given the chance to declare by actions his nationality.

even if you can prove it, it is still irrelevant to the present issues in Poland.

Correct:


Yo! :)
He stated it even explicitely and repeatedly with his famous works...

Historical heritage is always a hot issue.For me the claim that Alexander the Great was not greek is outrageous for example.Even more the claim that Ephesos for example was a turkish city.

Alexander wasn't greek he was Macedonian. ;)

Copernicus statue in Chicago

I cannot see why. Does it make me a criminal?


can you prove it? I think that it is impossible since it was so long time ago. Therefore arguing about legacy and heritage without proving it is pointless.


I wonder why Italians don't claim that England is indeed Italian and Spain Arabic. How far back can we go in order to waste time on pointless discussions?

The famous heads of a people belong to the treasure of the heritage, shared by all of this big family (what else is a people if not a grown big family).

It IS important and shouldn't be negotiated or given away lightly...

But it's true that Kopernikus stands for the centuries of overlapping and diverging Polish/German history and could become a real symbol for that.

But as long as Poland and Germany harbor so much hostility he is also a problem.

Once a new generation lives peacefully side by side without harboring any grudges anymore the Kopernikus case will be seen differently I believe - not as a divider but as a connector....

agree, but this seem to be endlessly discussed on PF and I am simply bored.

I never understood the nationalistic pov. Wouldn't it be better if everyone abandoned this antiquated way of thinking and just went where they wanted without any pretense? Everyone would be happier and much better off.

The Copernican ideal inspires me: Cosmopolitan, learned type of individual.

This concept have nothing to do with Copernicus. Otherwise he would not be loyal to the certain crown.

People, come on, how long you will ignore the difference between our times and period when he lived?

The language formed national identifies among people (especially in Central Europe) much later. Still, this is not any deciding criteria even in our times, look at Austrians or German speaking people in Switzerland. They don't consider themselves 'German'.