GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE!

Well I just hope I can go and see all of his haunts one day in Torun and Frombork and so on. The photos of these places look beautiful but the closest I've ever been is Prague. Maybe next year.

G

I'm glad.

I have started to like the Serbs after reading information from Serbs like you and others on this forum.


I agree.


Don't you think you are generalizing about Poland?

The last Polish president was Pro-Serbia.

MW, I got this info from a pro-Serbian, patriotic Polish woman. She told me the Serbs were demonised, and they were. She's fluent in both languages.

Copernicus was not 100% Polish, is it sinking in yet? ;) ;)

Well there's good an bad apples every where Seany. That Polish lady you said yourself was Pro-Serbian. I'm Polish American and I'm pro-Serbia. I'm also Pro-Crow ;) ;)


What does that mean??

Does not compute.

:D

Happy Halloween Seany!!

And? They never met him, they only knew his works, which were written in Latin. And he was from Poland, so he was a Pole for them.

You really are one strange individual if you "like" or "hate" people based on the internet.


HAHAHAHA.

Pro-Serbia my ass. The only time that he ever supported any Serbian cause was when he supported the opposite of what the Government supported, just for the sake of opposition.

Tell me, name one act (not words) that he did to help Serbia? What did the PiS government of 2005-2007 do to help Serbia?

Incidentally -

Your revisionism will neither change minds nor history of Poland , you can claim whatever you wish .

Among the top ten famous British is Isaak Newton who is not British , he is Jewish . But no one claims in a wiki he is Jewish or says he is 40 % British 60 % Jewish because of his mother Hannah , a Jewess.

So don`t play heresy , you just make fools of yourselves altogether with this home spun German lunatic self made historian .

Mikołaj Kopernik was of course Polish . And no one will check his DNA , because there is no proof of his other than Polish ancestry . Thats a common attitude of Germans who want to overtake our land , our heritage and national identity .

The only revisionist here is you, sunshine.


Yawn. Most people couldn't care less what he was. Jewish, British, European, who cares less?


Would that be like Norman Davies and many of the "historians" that write ludicrous stuff simply to sell books in Poland?


Yawn. Germans don't want Poland - what do they want a country with poor infrastructure, divided identity and a heritage that mostly involved fighting with her neighbours over petty things?

How much hatred is contained in just one sentence .


I am just Polish . I am not interested in investigating my DNA if I am 100% or 99.9 % Polish .


So, why do you post on Polish internet site spreading nonsense ?

No one in the world cares about Poland , good , but , we, Poles care .

He was British and Jewish.


Pity that we aren't talking about a man who ever used that name for himself.

Because he wasn't.


There is no suggestion whatsoever that Hannah Ayscough was any different from her neighbours. More lies Moania?


Philip Melancthion? I wonder where your "home spun" "lunatic" "self made" stuff comes from.


As has been amply demonstrated in this thread, he wasn't.


Perhaps there should be tests...

Jewish and British are not mutually exclusive, y know.
Your ridiculous and rather spiteful statement is like saying..."oh he is not British, he is a Jehovahs Witness". Rubbish in other words.

Hatred?

I know to your type, any criticism of Poland is immediately hatred (see also : right wing Jewish groups in Israel - it's amusing how many similarities there are) - but it's true. Poland has nothing to offer Germany except a large market for German products and cheap labour.


The truth is that you could easily be 0% Polish and 100% Ukrainian, you have no idea.


Nah, you don't care. If you did, you'd put a stop to many of the things that hurt Poland, but you don't, do you?

Let's not forget how lawyers were obliged to use the "kasa fiskalna" due to rampant tax evasion. I also remember how a private doctor refused to give me a "rachunek". And let's not forget all those PATRIOTIC NASZA POLSKA types who claim "renta" and then happily work all day.

Poles only care about Poland when someone that isn't Polish dares to point out the utter hypocrisy.

Don`t put in my mouth words I ddn`t say .

Spiteful ? Where ?

You know, now you are touched by my statement , you only just sensed how Polish people feel, if some German deluded self made historian lied to EU commision that Kopernik was German . Welcome aboard .

Why do you disguise yourself under the Polish nick . it is a pity you don`t understand anything " nicnierozumiem " . Your nick looks just awkward .

The other three guys , why don`t you leave this forum , no one treats you seriously, anyway .

This thread is about something different than your hatred comments about lawyers , doctors , cheap labour , huge market etc.

Mikołaj Kopernik is Polish pretty much in the same way as Isaac Newton was British Jew , according to Jewish law .


Because Newton`s mother Hannah was Jewess , he is considered Jewish, if some Brits like it or not .

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew

I am not disguised at all. I am learning Polish, and am quite aware that 'rozumiemnic' is grammatically incorrect. Y'see, unlike you, I have reached a point in my life where I no longer pretend to understand everything, and I chose a nick that reflects this.

have a nice day.

he was still british, whatever religion.

or maybe in his time he was english. i can't be bothered to check dates.

it is pointless to argue what other people are or were. the thread is about one person only: nick (to his mates) copernicus.

Maybe a source that Miss Ayscough was Jewish?

Of course we Brits would be just as proud of him if he were Jewish, like Disraeli, Anglo-Indian, like Virginia Woolf, African English like Mary Seacole, or whatever. Though he wasn't any of those.

More lies, Moania? And as usual speaking volumes about your 'quaint' ideas.

It is not because of his religion , but parent , which makes him a Jew

According to Jewish law someone is Jewish if his or her mother was a Jew. The mother of Kopernik(us) was German. :D

Copernicus decided who he was when he fought for the Polish king in defence of Olsztyn against the German knights. Nothing can be clearer than that.

GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK
Germans have always wanted to Germanize anything Polish.

Fantasising again.


I like the way that the usual racists make it seem like it's a bad thing that he might have been a bit German. Amusing, really.

don't u get it. a jew born in britain is british. a jew born in Poland is Polish.

noone gives a toss (in this thread) about nick's religion. it is his nationality that matters.

the germans claim german. the Poles claim Polish. and this is the point of the thread, nothing else.

You forgot a little detail: the overwhelming majority of the bishopric were Germans. Did they turn into Poles too when they fought against the Order?

Let's quote some people via Wikipedia, shall we?


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus#Nationality

So - both Miłosz and Davies, darlings of Poland, both say that it's absolutely absurd to define him as one or the other - and I suspect they're right.

Polmed, if you are seriously claiming he was 100% Polish then you have no appreciation of PIFL. Go and study some law first.

MW, belated Halloween wishes to you too!

nah she wouldn't get that...I did try to point it out, but she started some personal attack......

At the risk of being accused as a "home spun German lunatic self made historian*" I would like to add, for context, that at the time there was no such thing as 'Germany' as a country, any more than there was a European Union. Germany was a region in much the same way as we may today in the US refer to "New England" or "Appalachia". There wasn't even a unifying German language, and the language spoken in Baltic region and Hanse towns was Middle Low German, which is very different from the High German used in much of the Holy Roman Empire (and from which the modern German language is mostly derived). Middle Low German is more like Dutch or Frisian. It was one of 5 or 6 major Germanic dialects spoken in Central Europe at that time.

The Holy Roman Empire has been described (by Voltaire) as neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire. It also was not the Medieval equivalent of Germany as many Americans today assume. It was a very loose aggregation of different small states, ethnic enclaves, small theocracies and free cities and included people of many ethnicities. The Kingdom of Bohemia was not only part of the Holy Roman Empire but the King of Bohemia was one of the Prince Electors who elected the Emperor, and some of the most famous Emperors were from Bohemia (such as Charles IV). The seat of the Holy Roman Empire was in Prague three times. Emperors also derived from Hungary, Flanders, and Spain among other nations, and citizens of the HRE spoke Latin, Czech, Slavonik, Magyar, Italian, and various dialects of French among other languages, in addition to several dialects of German (Middle Low German, Middle High German, Swabian, Franconian, Alsatian and so on).

German speaking immigrants had migrated into almost all the cities in Central and North Eastern Europe during the Middle Ages and Germans were heavily integrated into Eastern Europe, but not as overlords or conquerers. To the contrary, Polish, Czech, and Hungarian military forces proved capable of defeating 'German' Imperial armies and Crusader-Knights on more than one occasion.

Poland on the other hand, was a Kingdom, so in that sense more like a modern State. But it was also very mixed! It was in the process of forming a union with Lithuania and the Polish Royal Dynasty derived from that country. Poland then included vast numbers of Ruthenians, German settlers, Scots, Dutch, Czechs, "Old Prussians" (native Baltic tribes) and indigenous groups like the Gorali and Masovians, and even Tartars and Turks. One of the Polands most famous and patriotic authors Henryk Sienkiewicz was part Tatar!

The other truth is that during the Middle Ages much of Europe was not even at the level of organization of a Kingdom, but was in fact made up of mixed zones of many ethnicities and no effective centralized rulership. This did include Prussia, Chelmnoland and Silesia, where Copernicus / Kopernik's family came from, as well as Lusatia, Moravia, Masovia, and Pomerania. Lusatia was governed by a Stadtbund (city league) of 5 German and one Czech towns** called Związek Sześciu Miast by the Poles and Šestiměsti by the Czechs, and Oberlausitzer Sechsstädtebu by the Germans. Moravia was governed by a Landfrieden / Landfrydy (diet) made up of a mixture of Czech and German towns, clergy and Gentry centered in Brno. Pomerania was stuck in a power struggle between the Griffin Dukes and the towns of Stettin (Szczecin), Griefswald and Rostock. Prussia was controlled by the Prussian Confederation of 19 Cities and 53 nobles and Clergy (inlcuing Lucas Watzenrode, the uncle of Copernicus / Kopernik), and by the Związek Jaszczurczy knightly league.

In these areas, there was at best a limited government and no unified culture, or language, or borders. Who was to enforce racial purity? It didn't exist.

If there was such a mechanism it would be news to me and I'd like to know about it.

G

* would be strange since I do not have a drop of German blood so far as I know
** The towns were Bautzen (Budyšin), Görlitz (Zhorjelc), Kamenz (Kamjenc), Lauban, Löbau (Lubij) and Zittau (Žitawa). Zittau was mostly Czech, the others were mostly German.

I should not have referred to Spain as a nation as it was also a region during Medieval times...

So which side of the fence are you on?

When it comes to history, I'm not on either side. History just is what it is. We can't learn anything by trying to make it more like what we want it to be.

But through reading history, and trying to be impartial, I have become very interested in and sympathetic to Poland which I knew nothing about until I really penetrated deep into historical sources (bypassing interpretation). That is why I came to this forum.

I like a lot of Polish and Czech authors and I think I relate better to Central European culture in general than to "Western" Culture.

G.

History and impartial, two words that don't go together :-).

Nice post by the way (923)