Crucifixes to stay in Polish schools

Iraqis have their own country.

Who cares?

Get out of here! Israelis have their own country too, PP. BBut, it was their country and they are people like you or I. What's your problem?

Tell that to the Americans LOL

Well, not only the Americans but they were first in. Anyway, what is your religion if you don't mind me asking?

Seanus, it's a vested interest involving many countries who have an interest in security.

Security, do explain. I'm all ears. Tie it in with crosses in Poland and I'll be very impressed.

Saddam did invade Kuwait, Seanus. That's a breech of security.

Wow, back in 1990 or so, right? AND? Please continue! A breach of the security of Kuwait? Was that the only breach around the world?

We can admit, many places around the world have an interest in that area because of the oil. Not just the US, but countries busy developing their economies as well...There was this fear that Saddam would destablize the entire region.

There was this fear that Iran would build nukes, AND? When did that fear surface, PP? With the invasion of Kuwait?

Iran and Iraq were both fighting each other, as you know. They should all settle down and stop fighting. That would help tremendously. Iran should devote itself to Allah's desire for world peace. No one is going to mess with a peaceful nation.

America financed both sides of that war. They didn't want them to "settle down". American firms profit hugely from war. What, America fights no battles? LOL Show me where Allah said that. How many wars did Afghanistan wage? Brzezinski pushed them into a war with the Soviets, just as he wants to do with Iran and Russia now. Iran's refusal to accept Russia as a country which can enrich their nuclear fuel is but one sign. Russia also voted against Iran recently and this is what Obama wanted.

Please return to the thread, PP, as you are churning out nonsense arguments. Are you a Christian? If so, why?

And no Russian weapon can ever be found anywhere in all of Iran. Yes, it's all America, isn't it?

Maybe the crucifixes need to stay in the schools to remind you of key Christian points, like Peace, Love, Forgiveness, Suffering, Mercy...eh, Seanus?

Afghanistan hasn't raged any wars, just churns out Al Qaedians instead.

Geez, knock it off. Russia financed Iran's nuclear plant development but you are saying that they are guilty before being proven innocent. Wow, how America has changed.

Don't dare even attempt to remind me of Christian values. I'm very well aware of them and I don't need you to teach me how they work. I have preached and practised them all in my life so never take that line with me again.

Al Qaeda? Please read Bollyn and Burke. Info can help to change your mind.

Yes, it's Russian money that's being poured into that country.


I brought it up since Christmas is near and this thread is about religion in schools. It's time to start pondering and reflecting on the mysteries of the Messiah. The message, and what it really means. What is the relevance to our modern world?

Well, America had a vested interest in Iraq and Russia in Iran. Is that problematic for you?

I completely agree, PP. Sorry for being rash but I really am a pretty virtuous guy (I prefer that word to righteous) and I wanted to get this thread back on track. The relevance to the modern world may take hours, days, weeks or even months to discuss.

Care to start with your upbringing or values on this topic!? As an American Christian, what is your take on the Messiah's relevance to the modern world? Judaists don't believe in the Second Coming, do you?

It should be problematic to many people.

Why? Brzezinski seems to have done well in bringing about an Iranian rebuke to Russia. Such snubbing is important in international relations as it can redefine the parameters. I can understand that Iran repudiated France but Russia? That's a big step! Also, Russia voted against Iran and that must stick in the craw of Ahmedinejad.

Come on, PP, please discuss the thread and not the drivel you pick up from the US press machine. Are you a Christian?

I already discussed the thread. It's time to start reflecting, Seanus.

This is a forum so if you want to reflect without writing, stop writing on this thread. If you want to be circumspect, then share with other people.

Have you any theological awareness at all?

Seanus, I can reflect and share with others.

Well, do that and stop posting garbage!! I hate people that can't discuss their beliefs. They appoint themselves as righteous but are just empty morons!!

Thanks for the reply. I don't question the authenticity of your experience. But I think your understanding of it is based on your christian upbringing. If you were brought up as a Jew and you would experience this, you would assume that you felt the spirit of G-d Himself.

I hope you continue to experience thing like this, but I just wish you would channel it to good purpose like creating more love between people and not increasing hatred of Jews. You say you respect Torah-observant Jews, yet you have nothing but nasty things to say about Israelis, even though many of us do observe the Torah.

On the topic at hand: The issue of religion in Poland, now a catholic country, is very different than in the US, where the government is not supposed to be involved in religion. America, with the separation of church and state, is a much more religious country than most European countries. So the system is not hurting christians in america.

Good points there, yehudi. America also benefits from having different religions, rather than only 1. There is merit in many religions and philosophies like Buddhism, Taoism and Shintoism to name but 3. They all have their compelling logic!

People tend to choose just one blindly and follow it to a tee. If they were to read more widely, they may reevaluate their first choice.

I don't like the idea of crucifixes in classrooms - maybe only in the catholic religion subject classroom. But many years will pass and many multicultural people will have to flow through Poland to make the change...

What's wrong with crucifixes in classrooms? They tend to be quite discreet and don't cause any problems. They are meant as the antithesis to harm.

Firstly the presence of crucifixes in classroom is completely unsubstantiated, moreover religiously unsubstantiated. They are used marely as tools of magic. There's no much meaning to them, so why hang them in the first place. I'm actually more repulsed by the harsh Vatican's reaction to the verdict of European Court of Justice - which is stupid taking into consideration that church itself is teaching that hanging a cross or crossing oneself doesn't change anything, children are not paying more attention to what they are learning, and people are still dieing in accidents.

I've read an article by a priest that states the problem just emphasizes fears of certain atheists who are mingling tradition with religion, but I'm pretty sure most people who are against it find the whole church's fury at the slightest mention of "let's take these crosses out" off-putting.

It's perhaps the single most symbolic sign known to man, how on earth can you say otherwise? Tools of magic? You are thinking witchcraft. Oh, that's nothing for the Vatican, believe me.

Where have I said anything about it not being a symbol. And it is as magical as all the other religious symbols. I understand the traditional value but come on what's with the church's anger, if it was just tradition church wouldn't be going banans over it.