delphiandomine 86 | 17823 7 Aug 2011 / #61For example, MI6 prisons too in Europe (maybe, in Poland too?), revealed just a day ago or two at Guardian.co?It's unlikely that Lepper would have known anything about them.A simple analysis of the important ministries controlled by PiS in the 2005-2007 period will tell you this - LPR and Samobroona only had control of unimportant things, and Kaczynski made it clear that he never trusted either of them.The fact that he had the title "deputy Prime Minister" was really meaningless.
NomadatNet 1 | 457 7 Aug 2011 / #62Seanus, Assange knows nothing other than what is given to him by whoever behind wikileaks really.. (for that, to understand who, look into what wikileaks have published for months, after his arrest)DD, (assuming he knew something secret that was also known by kaczynski - i see you are more about this), who knows.. but, if there is such a secret, then, kaczynski didn't die due to accident and lepper didn't die by suicide.
Seanus 15 | 19668 7 Aug 2011 / #63He is behind Wikileaks. Watch his interview with David Frost. Lepper was not killed for whatever he might have known.
NomadatNet 1 | 457 8 Aug 2011 / #64Why wikileaks haven't published MI6 tortures shows that Assange isn't as shown. We have been hearing CIA tortures for a long time, but, haven't heard much about MI6 tortures although it seems it was more than CIA's and more systematic. Guardian published about this a day ago or two. If Lepper spoke about CIA tortures/prisons before, then, he probably had interest in these things, so, he might have also learnt some info about MI6 prisons and tortures too.
wielki pan 2 | 250 8 Aug 2011 / #66Lepper was a colorful Polish politican who had a similiar style to the famous Russian politic Vladimir Zhirinovsky, Lepper was a old communist thug who changed his beliefs after the fall of communism, like all of the communist who became overnight capitalist and then continued robbing the system. Lepper was good at making promises, and playing to public opinion. Sorry about his death, but people who live by the sword in classical style die by the sword. It will probally all come out in the wash when we find out what was behind it.
NomadatNet 1 | 457 8 Aug 2011 / #67Then others would have been taken out too.Maybe, some small people are already taken out, who knows..We know public people, people under spotlights. Maybe, Lepper who was also a loose lips, a politican, was a warning / intimidation to the others.. Or, just a revenge, who knows, as documents are already published by Guardian.
delphiandomine 86 | 17823 8 Aug 2011 / #68Maybe, Lepper who was also a loose lips, a politican, was a warning / intimidation to the others.. Or, just a revenge, who knows, as documents are already published by Guardian.Or maybe, he was just up to his eyeballs in debt along with legal action and took the easy way out rather than facing the music?
Seanus 15 | 19668 8 Aug 2011 / #69This isn't the first time that the Guardian has leaked such data, Nomad. Watch Assange's interview, he often refers to them and controversy.Delph's suggestion is more likely. Lepper was trounced in the voting stakes and he was going nowhere fast.
NomadatNet 1 | 457 8 Aug 2011 / #70Or maybe, he was just up to his eyeballs in debt along with legal action and took the easy way out rather than facing the music?So, he didn't have enough money to buy a gun? people with money problem usually prefer to shoot in their heads.. suicide by rope is rarely seen in their suicides of business people, politicians, public characters.
Seanus 15 | 19668 8 Aug 2011 / #71Poland is not a gun culture, nomad. Rope was likely nearby so he used it.
NomadatNet 1 | 457 8 Aug 2011 / #72Poles keep ropes in their offices? It was party office, wasn't it? So, a legal gun was probably available there.
Seanus 15 | 19668 8 Aug 2011 / #73I would seriously doubt it, nomad. Besides, maybe he just preferred the rope option.
NomadatNet 1 | 457 8 Aug 2011 / #74if he killed himself in the farm, the rope could be understandable.but, in party office with rope? most probably, in the office, there was a legal gun or two for security reasons as it exists in any party office.
Seanus 15 | 19668 8 Aug 2011 / #75Are you a Cluedo player, nomad? Maybe a detective? Rope was there, he used it.
NomadatNet 1 | 457 8 Aug 2011 / #76If so, it is okay then. Nothing to talk. Let them tell and we shut up. (why are we here if we are to say "yes" to everythings? and, why 3 page here? only Rip is enough then..)Anyway. This reminds me of famous "First, they came" quote of Pastor Martin:First they came for the communists,and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.Then they came for the trade unionists,and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.Then they came for the Jews,and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak out for me.
gumishu 15 | 6235 8 Aug 2011 / #77januszwojciechowski.salon24.pl/331312,czy-martwy-lepper-mocniej-zatrzesie-polska-niz-zywyfor those who can read Polish - I am not that proficient at translating to do it in a quarterfor those who can't read Polish the author mentions the rape pills (is the pill called that way in English actually) 'pigułka gwałtu' - Tomasz Sakiewicz of 'Gazeta Polska' announced yesterday that he has a recording of his talk with Andrzej Lepper from a couple of months ago when he states clearly that he's affraid for his life and mentions why - I think this story can be very interesting
NomadatNet 1 | 457 8 Aug 2011 / #78It looks like not a suicide.I read the page you gave its link above, through google translator, and it mentions a land scandal, but, it might be another irrelevant reasoning.Through google translator, it is not so clear. Does it imply that there was a serious problem between J. Kaczynski and him? (if so, it seems that brother twin too is on political target.?)
JonnyM 11 | 2608 8 Aug 2011 / #79if he killed himself in the farm, the rope could be understandable.but, in party office with rope?It was the cord from a piece of boxing kit. It was in his office.
NomadatNet 1 | 457 8 Aug 2011 / #80Ok, I read. But, it still doesn't prove it was suicide. It makes clear only how he died. My mentioning his not killing himself by a gun is about the probability of killing by someone/s else more than by himself. At least, if his money problem was the real reason, the probability of using the gun increases. When it is hanging, it smells more about honor killings, either by himself or, most likely, by someone/s else or by some to give a message to someones. Reading post of Gumishu above, rape pill or sleep-making-pill, etc, it looks like more about honor killing by giving pills first etc. Since it is called rape-pill instead of sleep-drug-pill, attentions are focused onto somethings in his past.I read this, written in 2005:europeanvoice.com/article/imported/an-example-of-british-humour/53805.aspxwhere it says:Polish humour? The Belgian authorities are investigating an allegation of rape against Bogdan Golik, a 42-year-old Polish MEP who is a member of the Self-Defence Party. A prostitute alleges that he forced her to have unprotected sex.The MEP denies her version of events, which are supposed to have taken place at his Brussels apartment in rue Pascale.Put aside such questions as why a veterinary doctor would be so stupid, or whether this act of Self-Defence will be criticised by the ultra-Catholic League of Polish Families (which might approve of the not-using-a-condom bit). The man must be assumed to be innocent until proven guilty - which would entail lifting his Parliamentary immunity. Instead contemplate the question posed by Andrzej Lepper, Golik's party leader: "How can you rape a prostitute?" Verdict: not funny.A prostitute claimed that he (a party member of Lepper's party) forced her to have unprotected sex... ? This isn't foreigner to people, isn't it? (my comment: prostitute was probably paid by someone/s else then.)
gazzaroon - | 36 8 Aug 2011 / #81Whatever the man was like it is very sad that it ended like it did. I hope his family is ok and can get over this terrible event for them.
JonnyM 11 | 2608 8 Aug 2011 / #82But, it still doesn't prove it was suicideIt makes it very likely. And there is no reason whatsoever to suspect foul play. Sad, but just one of those things.
NomadatNet 1 | 457 8 Aug 2011 / #83Lets look at the comment, above, of a newspaper back in 2005 who made fun of Lepper then. What did Lepper say? He said: "How can you rape a prostitute?" He is wrong of course... but, existence of prostitutehood is a rape itself to a community and this isn't mentioned by anyone including that newspaper who made fun of this word of Lepper.. It is not normal to hear a rape alleagation from a prostitutes who accept even to be raped, for money.. So, she was most likely paid to do this rape allegation against a member of Leppek's party.. While this is so, it won't be surprise if allegations about Lepper too are slanderings as well.
JonnyM 11 | 2608 8 Aug 2011 / #84What did Lepper say? He said: "How can you rape a prostitute?Yes. A vile individual.prostitutes who accept even to be rapedWTF??!?
NomadatNet 1 | 457 8 Aug 2011 / #85Lepper's word, "how can you rape a prostitute?", was not a question probably, (was it?) but, it was probably for defencing his party member, a MP, against slanderings. Maybe, that party friend became with a prostitute in Belgium, and that was bad enough for Polish conservative community.. But, I guess, even Polish conservative community laughed at the rape allegation of a prostitute..Having said this, if Leppek said this "how can you rape a prostitute?" as a question really, then, it is much more important than the rape, etc..ps: btw, isn't this rape alleagation, that guy tried to have sex without condom, similar to J. Assange case in that 2nd woman with name Sophia claimed same? JonnyM, you should call Assange too as vile individual.
grubas 12 | 1382 11 Aug 2011 / #86It is not normal to hear a rape alleagation from a prostitutes who accept even to be raped, for money.. So, she was most likely paid to do this rape allegation against a member of Leppek's partyIn December 2005 Golik was accused of raping a Brussels prostitute. Golik claims that he is the victim of a conspiracy. He said the incident is just a provocation resulting from, among the others, actions undertaken by him against the Russia to Germany gas pipeline. On the demand of Golik, the Belgian prosecutor’s office asked the European Parliament to strip Golik of his immunity. On October 3, the Legal Commission of the European Parliament made a decision about stripping Bogdan Golik, a Polish member of the European Parliament, of his immunity. “I’m glad that I will finally be able to testify and defend myself, which would be impossible in case of my being protected by the immunity” – said Golik. He emphasized that he himself asked the Legal Commission to strip him of the immunity. In November 2008 the Royal Prosecutor stated that Golik is innocent and there is no evidence against him
pip 10 | 1658 11 Aug 2011 / #87I for one am betting on somebody else killing him. There are too many questions.If you think about this guy- he was an arrogant ass that thought he was above those of whom he represented. He thought he was above the law. He lived his life showing people how much money he made from them and he was nothing more than a thug.I don't see this type of personality somebody who kills themselves. He never thought he would get in trouble- but he was afraid for his life.I think that if Polish authorities take the time- they will uncover something that will alter the country.
NomadatNet 1 | 457 11 Aug 2011 / #88He said the incident is just a provocation resulting from, among the others, actions undertaken by him against the Russia to Germany gas pipeline.So, the court decided that rape was a slandering to him in 2008.His party of Lepper too was against Russia?Likely so. Maybe, not ideological, but, beneficiary based.And, Lepper was a coalition party with Katczynski.(ps: Lepper too was a Jew? like Kaczynski.)
delphiandomine 86 | 17823 11 Aug 2011 / #89(ps: Lepper too was a Jew? like Kaczynski.)Neither of them were Jewish, where did you get that from?(not that it matters)
NomadatNet 1 | 457 11 Aug 2011 / #90Neither of them were Jewish, where did you get that from?Given here. Kazcynski bros are in the list. But, Lepper not. Maybe, forgotten?(sure it doesn't matter for me - but, we know, it matters for many people.)