American soldiers beat up in Torun, Łódź

Pretty bad. But good enough to understand that one of the Americans is of Korean descent and that Bolentus somehow decided to fail to mention that fact when discussing the race of the soliders. Any thoughts why he might do that.

And my knowledge of Poland is good enough to know that trying to run during night-time in winter will usually end in falling over. I can only assume that those who have been living in Canada for many years have forgotten that in Poland street lighting is not too good and the idea of clearing away snow and ice has yet to catch on much.


And Polish bad boys are famed for never being racists, aren’t they? Oh, sorry, I got that slightly wrong, as any non-white person who has spent time in Poland will tell you.


Congratulations boletus: 20 years of living outside Poland and you still think that foreigners are so ignorant about Poland that they will believe your snow-job that the country has no problems at all with racism.

BTW, can you tell us about your experiences as a visible minority in Poland? It’d be good to hear about your personal experience with regard to racism in Poland, what gives you the knowledge to say that it is an insignificant problem here? Hell, you don't even live in Poland! No wonder you know so little about the place.

Because to most Polish people the fact that someone was Korean is rather irrelevant in this context. A couple of guys get into a fight, where does their race come into the picture? You must be pretty racist yourself to look so diligently for any race-related info.


Read what I wrote. For the Bydgoskie Przedmieście boys, you don't need to be black or Korean to get beaten. All you need to do is breathe and stand in the wrong place at the wrong time. ;-)

On the other hand, if they had a mate who happened to be born half-Korean, say, they would defend him to the death if need be. Being from Bydgoskie Przedmieście is a very special bond.

Harry: trying to run during night-time in winter will usually end in falling over.

Why didn't the attackers fall over then? Were they superhuman?

that isn't saying you're seeing black people. are you counting Vietnamese? Middle Eastern?

anyway, let's just say there aren't a lot of black people in poland. more than 99% of the population is either polish, german, ukrainian, russian, lithuanian, etc.

Yes, obviously his source failed to mention that. Why do you always look for bad intentions, initiating conflics with other users?


Yes many of them are, but you don't know if this particular attack was a racist attack. As I said in a comment 2 pages ago we don't know the race or ancestry of Joseph L.

Joshua P. joined the brawl later so he couldn't be the reason for the attack.
Therefore everything in this thread connected with race is a pure speculation and should be considered as an off-topic.

ROFL! You seriously expect anybody here to believe that race is irrelevant to the average Polish hooligan? Next you’ll be claiming that the average jihadist has no interest in a person’s sex!


But not being white makes the chance of getting into a fight a hell of a lot higher. As anybody who has any personal experience (you very clearly do not) will tell you. Do you actually know any non-white people who have spend time in Poland?


Why do foreigners in Paris tread in dogshiit so often but the locals never do?


Why the obsession with black people. I pointed out that the chances were not high that both these Americans were white. And by some complete miracle, I was right.


We know that the guy was American. And haven't even you suggested that he was attacked for being American? So either way this was a racist attack.

When I came to Poland I worked for a company that employed 80 foreigners, about 50 of them male, 48 of them white. Guess what the two who were attacked by strangers had in common.

Actually, lots. The douchebag types got into trouble sooner or later. Anyone who was a normal, pleasant human being got along no problem. In other words - most of the time it's not race so much as personality or attitude that gets you singled out. Please note: I do not count staring or even pointing fingers as racism or racist attacks - I have lived in India and was stared at, pointed at, and made fun of on a regular basis, esp. in remote rural areas, but that's normal under the circs.

Harry do you have any proof that this particular attack was race related? Why do you duck the fact that the soldier of Korean ancestry wasn't the one who was attacked as first?


Me? Where?

Yeah sure, the guys from Peacecorps and VSO I was working with who got attacked were all douchebags. And so were all the other non-whites I've ever known here who had any problems at all. Blame the foreign victims and not the Polish attackers, really shows your class. Would I be correct in assuming that you think poor little Kuba Tomczak is innocent because that English slut was asking for it?


Given what Magdalena claims, they were both douchebags?

We are not discussing my class here. Also, when I said they got into trouble, I did not mean to imply that they all got physically attacked. Do you mean to tell me that ALL your non-white friends in Poland got beaten up? Everywhere and always? Or do you actually mean that some of them got into conflicts some of the time, and a percentage of those got into actual fights and maybe lost those fights? Like any other human beings anywhere? I just don't see RACE entering the picture, as I said, it's usually someone's attitude, state of inebriation, the place, the time, whether attractive women are witnessing the event - influencing both the attacker and the victim, BTW.

Also, please explain one thing to poor little old me. There were three extra soldiers in the bar with Joshua and Joseph. They never lifted a finger to help their mates. Why?!

Why do you duck the fact that nothing has been said that the other soldier was white?


No, not you, I mistook you for another poster. Sorry about that. I'd edit it if I could.

Some American dudes got beat up by some thugs in Poland. Polish dudes get beat up by thugs in Poland everyday but I don't see you nitwits making so much noise about that.

Some foreign soldiers learned a lesson on spotting the difference between a bar you don't go into and a bar you chill out in. That's it- some of you fuggers got some race related hang ups and are doing A LOT of projecting.

*urinates on thread and leaves*

I mean that a lot of the non-white people I know in Poland have been involved in situations which went past finger pointing and staring. I'd say that most of the males who have been here for more than a couple of months faced such situations.


And you base that on what exactly? Going to a place with a non-white friend and then going back to the same place with a white friend? Give that a try sometime.


a) Got any proof about what they did or did not do? Or is your tactic to smear both victims (the guys who go beaten up are according to you douchebags) and the friends of the victims?

b) Nice attempt to take the discussion off Polish racism and onto American failure.

I don't duck that fact, I just don't speculate.


That's ok, nothing bad happened :)


I missed that one comment.
If that was 11 Febuary then there was no snow or frost (at least in Southern Poland, excluding mountains of course). I remember that day very clearly. But it's meaningless. The articles clearly say that Joseph L. was after a few drinks with red bull, while Joshua P. was almost sober (no wonder he was the one who wanted to call for help, that's the most sensible option in such situation). I hope the soldier at the hospital will recover soon and be alright.

Far from it, both highly upstanding and sober guys. Neither of them white...

I would guess they were being tested for testosterone levels. Males will do that when newcomers enter the picture.


And what, according to you, will happen?


One of the articles, I might be wrong but I think it was the GW one, said that.


Well, the bouncer did initially throw out one American and one Polish dude. They were obviously both drunk. You don't get thrown out if you're stone cold sober.


No, I'm just curious about Americans. And you still haven't proven the racist part, so don't drag it in thinking I won't notice.

I guess I must appear to be far less test-worthy than non-white males.


Based on my experience, one is far far more likely to face unpleasant situations when one is with a non-white person than when one is not.


In Torun it was between -7 and -16 and there had been snow on three of the previous four days:

wunderground.com/history/wmo/12250/2012/2/11/WeeklyHistory.html


On that we all agree (apart, no doubt, from certain morons). I'd also hope that this would be a learning experience for more than just American soldiers but it seems that that is a hope too far.

I can't believe that this thread is still going. It is ridiculous!

Oh Harry!

American still isn't a race. If it were, then there would be no racial problems in America. Just because you say something long enough - it doesn't make it true. Even if you do wish to conveniently ignore well thought out rebuttals (I love that tactic.. very clever), which you do on every thread.. Show us the EVIDENCE that this was:

a) a racist attack
b) a xenophobic attack

(evidence being: language used by the thugs, previous discussions overheard by third parties, past (racist) behaviour) and you'll no doubt be left alone.

Maaarysia has already acknowledged that:


Which means that the attack CAN'T have been racially motivated because the KOREAN GUY JOINED IN. Perhaps he was the racist, itching to get in a bar fight with some chavvy Polaks (lol)? Mate, just let it go. Wild speculation has never helped anyone.

If you wish to see race as the defining factor which everyone acts by, feel free to do so. But for goodness sake stop pushing your behavioural theories onto other people. Not everyone defines themselves solely by their race, or has racial motives. I don't but perrhaps you do, which is why you behave like a dog with a rag on these race issues - refusing to let go, and seeing it everywhere, even when there isn't reason to.

Show us ANY EVIDENCE of a racially motivated attack (even a xenophobic attack -I'll let you have that one too). Any at all. You have the whole internet to trawl through. I'm sure you can find something.

As my boyfriend said yesterday... "Sometimes people don't like you because you behave like a c*nt... they don't disike you because you happen to be black/Jewish/Asian/Pakistani/Korean/Whatever... it's simply because you behave like a c*nt".

My wild speculation says (I'm doing it now!): The Yanks and Polish chavs were both behaving like drunken c*nts. End of story.

I'm sorry, you are right. For some reason I was thinking about January (even though I wrote Fabuary... I think I need a cofee)... no wonder I was pondering why they were partying in the middle of the week ;)

No worries.

What would be the point of testing You? From my understanding you don’t look at girls.

A few years back there was an incident where a bunch of American servicemen who shared the cab ride beat up a cab driver (guess they did not want to pay for the ride). Btw Harry, a theft since they never did pay for that ride, needless to say the MP’s took them back on board of their ship when the Polish police were called in and arrived on the scene of the crime, they were not allowed to question the men. They sailed away few days later without ever being brought to justice, point is as long as the Americans behave like a douchebags be it as individuals or on administration level like the commanding officer in charge of those men who allowed their boys to get away with their misdeeds by protecting them from local authorities whenever they step out of line there will be more and more incidents like this. A douchebag is a douchebag, you build your own reputation and soon enough American uniform in Poland will be synonymous with that word, you only have yourself to blame.

No, I prefer women, but you stick to girls if that is your thing.


And you of course have a link to a reliable source which supports your little tale.
It's strange because I remember being in Tri-city for BALTOPS a couple of times and remember seeing for for myself how the taxi drivers tried to charge the amount on the meter (which was already over the real amount) per passenger. If your story has any truth in it at all (which is rather unlikely, to say the least), it would most probably have been a cabbie getting what was coming to him.


And no doubt heroic Polish thugs like yourself will use that as an excuse to chivalrously steal any valuables such Americans may have on their person.

Here:

As said Barbara Kuczyńska of KMP , the notice of the event in Sopot police received on the night of Friday to Saturday .

" Notified us that around the Grand Hotel a group of men behaving aggressively towards a taxi driver of one of the Tri-City corporation. Establishing our identity on site after it turned out that behaving aggressively are American soldiers ." " We have notified the Military Police , which together with the supervisor of Americans took them to the ship " - explained Kuczyńska .

Witness the event was Paul Wilkicki , a resident of Sopot and familiar at the same time the victim. He said that the taxi driver is in the hospital , is to leave on Monday.

Relating event Walkicki stressed that " it was not a brutal beating , but the scuffle between a group of men and a taxi driver , at some point one of the attackers fell taxi driver who fell on the concrete and briefly lost consciousness ."

I would imagine that after spending 17 years in Poland you could do that for yourself.


Interesting how the attitude changes so quickly. Yup just what I have suspected another douchebag, this time with a Aus passport of uncertain background, same thing really.

So that would have been a couple of years after the Gdynia police detained a Polish-born US sailor and then tried to charge him with draft dodging and illegally joining the armed forces of a foreign power.

Law is the Law and it applies equally to all Polish citizens, especially if they sport a uniform of a foreign country.

According to this link they were tipsy and punched the taxi driver because he didn't want to take them for the price they had proposed. As you see he didn't managed to rip them off so their behaviour has no excuse. The case was remitted.


What it has to do with the subejct of this thread?

Not attitudes: experience.
Who is more likely to be the source of trouble: a Polish hooligan who has just found non-whites in his bar or a US technician? Take a guess.

How many times have I had problems with any US servicemen? Never.
How often have taxi drivers tried to rip me off? Lots.

Not hard to work out what is really going on if one isn't so blinded by thoughts that 'that man is a Pole so I must support him' that one even describes common theft as "chivalrous".


Now you want to call me a douchebag? Well, at least I stick to women, while you apparently are chasing after somewhat young ones.

But it's not the case, again. Read the source then comment.

Have read the source thanks. Pity that there is no mention of the price which the sailors were offering. From what I've seen myself, US servicemen are quite happy to pay over the odds for taxis. And all us foreigners know that when taxi drivers decide to rip us off the other taxi drivers won't break solidarity.


Unless, obviously, it is committed by a Pole against a foreigner: then, to a certain type of Pole, it is a chivalrous act.