Urgent Relationship help - wife wants to stay in Poland

Very true about Gregy. However, despite the racist and esteem issues, I've heard very similar argument s from my wife and her family. It's like the Truman show over there!

because its true.after a while every pole starting to realise ,how isolated life they live in the UK.and come to conclusion that its not worth the money.and even money is not good anymore.


what racist issue?

@BritboyByd

Atch has written two very sensitive and thoughtful posts in response to your predicament. You'd do well to heed his/her advice. Take time to think about some of the advice but please be acutely aware that none of us here on the forum have to walk in your shoes so dishing out advice is easy.

It's your life, your marriage. If you love each other then it's worth reminding both of yourselves what is at stake. Good luck

huh??? he just accused his wife of racism,cus she doesnt want to live with him..lol
thats comedy
unless i misunderstood smthng.

Good point spiritus, those posts show a real understanding of my situation

The point Atch was making is that people let their own problems cloud their judgment about other people's problems. In your case you assume that everybody else can only do what you managed to do. However, there most certainly are Polish people who have moved to the UK and built very good lives for themselves, good job, nice house, etc. I know some of them.

The OP's wife could also get a good job and have a nice life in the UK, but it's much easier for her to just stay in the place where her family are and have her husband send her double the average wage every month.

You nailed it Harry, well said.
Why move out of her comfort zone while having her cake and eating it too.


First thing I would do is lighten my basket.
You are not married to her family, you are married to her.
She firstly has to make the choice of who she is married to, you or her family and then cut the umbilical cord.
You were married in a Catholic Church were you not ?
Doesn't the Catholic Bible says when you get married you are to leave your parents and cling to your spouse.


Are you not the man of YOUR family ?
Doesn't the Catholic Bible say that the man is the head of HIS household ?
Time to turn the show off and deal with your bugbear one on one according to the scriptures and vows you took when you were married.

That's why it is called a Wedding.

Touche. Thats what i think. But I dont know what to do about it? If I cut the funds, I'm sure she'll dig her heels in even more, saying "I'm depriving the kids" using "money as a weapon" etc and probably borrow. Unless I play the end game, and she literally runs out of cash and has nowhere to go.

I just want her to understand that Pol is not the place to be. I am the only one who believes she could get a good job. Her mum believes she is "too old to work in McDonalds" if she came to the UK. So that train of thought perculates through.

Anecdotally, a lot of her friends lived in Eng/Ire. All moved back to Pol, due to having a kid when abroad, then bitterly regretted it when they moved back, as earned 1/4 what they did abroad, and the promised family support/babysitting failed to materialize.

Then send even more money to fatten up her mum until she dies of obesity.

This is yet another time I read this strange statement from you so I've decided to comment.
It is not very common for Polish women to "expect" their husbands to go abroad and send money home while visiting family once a month. It happens when people can't find work in Poland or want to earn more money than in Poland. It's usually a mutual decision and not an easy one. Also, not only men go abroad to work. My aunt at one point went to Italy to work as a caregiver (she's a nurse) and left two sons under the care of my uncle. When she earned enough money she went back. There was also one Ukrainian middle-aged lady in my neighbourhood who worked as a caregiver and was sending money home - for her daughter's university studies. It also happens that both Polish parents go abroad to work and leave their children under the care of grandparents - apparently it's fairly common in my region which is one of the poorest in Poland. Trust me, noone "expects" such life, people often simply have no choice.


Polish society is somewhat more traditional than some Western ones and Polish society in general may have a bit different expectations of the roles of a man and a woman in a marriage and in a family. A man is more likely to be seen as a breadwinner and therefore expected by everyone, not only by women to support his family financially and a woman is expected by everyone, not only by men to take care of the household and children.

At least that's the theory because in practice usually both husband and wife work from my experience.
In general, it is possible, I guess, that Polish men go to work abroad more often than women, but don't forget that here the women are expected by society in general, not only by men, to take care of the children and are seen as better fit to take care of them and so are left behind. Plus it's less dangerous for men to work abroad on their own than for women, let's face it.


It depends on the individual person. I know families where for a wife children and husband come first and then her extended family follows and her and her needs are at the very last end. You're generalising way too much.


That's what Polish mothers usually do because fathers often can't bother (I'm generalising a bit probably, but still in Poland it's more often the mother who is expected to take care of stuff related to children and household). She was probably raised this way, so it's possible she isn't taking much notice of your advice and opinions because of that and not because she wants to spite you or have more "power" or whatever.

BritboyByd, 9000 zł a month for one adult and two children is a lot of money in Poland, imho. So what are you saying - she claims to need more? On what basis?

It does sound like your marriage is nearing an end, especially if after ten years of marriage you're seeking a relationship advice on an internet forum... You don't sound like you love her anymore, maybe she doesn't love you anymore either - in my opinion that would be the fundamental question you two need to ask each other and whether you want to be married. I don't think strangers on the internet can answer this for you...

I think Atch mentioned going to a relationship counsellor - that would be a good idea, but I'm not sure how it could be done if you two live in two different countries.


Then what is her profession and what job could she find in the UK? Could you help her find a job? Has she ever lived in the UK (or anywhere abroad)?

Btw, of course it's possible that she's still married to you to milk you, it's also possible that it isn't the case. You should know your wife best and be able to tell.

There's a similar case to yours in my family, my relatives who live in the countryside - the guy works in Germany and goes back to Poland to his wife and daughter once in a blue moon. I don't know how they work as a marriage, I don't understand this, to be honest. I don't think they're divorced - I would hear about it. All I know is that he distanced himself from his own parents which is rather sad.

@Paulina

9000zl is a lot. 2k goes on childcare, 2k rent bills, i guess rest is food/petrol/healthcare clothes etc. I reckon she should be able to live on 6-7k

She has lived in the UK but fell pregnant shortly after moving here, so never worked here. But her mother was on Skype everyday turning emotional screw. So eventually we moved back.

I have had various arguments on the subject with her, and you get the truth then. She doesn't want to leave POL. She thinks this arrangement can continue for years.

Well, does she claim that 9000 zł is not enough? Does she want you to send more money than 5000-6000 zł? You wrote earlier: "she'll dig her heels in even more". What do you mean by that? Does she have debts? Is she some kind of crazy spender or sth?


Then it is possible that she may believe that she won't be able to find a decent work in the UK. How old is she?


Ah, yes... Some Polish mothers can be that way...


Did you ever talk in a calm way about this? Did she tell you her reasons why she wants to stay in Poland? Is it only about her job?


Doesn't she miss you? And what about children? Don't they miss you? For how long has this been going on (you living in the UK)?

Paulina, I'm talking about Polish women married to men from the UK or Ireland or living there with their Polish husband boyfriend. I have known quite a number of them. They live in England or Ireland for a few years but then decide that the ideal situation would be if they could go back to Poland because the money their husband earns would go much further there. It often starts out with the man supposed to join her in Poland after six months or a year, you know get a bit in the kitty and then follow on but the he can't find work there and he ends up staying in the British Isles. I knew one Polish girl who hadn't had her baby yet but had the whole thing planned and - wait for it- he was to visit her every six months! The arrangement is often suggested by the woman in the first place.


And there it is in a nutshell. I was always astonished by the lack of any obvious sentiment but that's the way it is. Polish women have a very practical outlook on relationships. To be honest I think they seem to prefer it as they don't have a man under their feet requiring attention.Once the man gives them the family they want, and provides for that family they are content. That's what they expect from marriage.


I was referring to that particular woman based on how the OP described his situation, not women in general.

yes i agree with you on that ..all of them woman are selfish and greedy. they are designed like that by nature.hehe

Doesn't she miss you?

If, in a nutshell it comes to this, then my feeling is No. For example, when i go back to POL, she often works overtime and sees it as a time to relieve her of her "duties" so she can do the stuff she can't do when im not there, like go out with friends etc, as opposed to spend time with her husband. So i feel a bit short-changed there.

Polish women in general or "Polish women married to men from the UK or Ireland or living there with their Polish husband boyfriend"? I think you're probably generalising even about those living in the UK/Ireland. My best friend and her boyfriend worked in the UK for a while but they both went back to Poland because they missed the country, family and friends too much. My another friend has a British boyfriend and they both live and work in the UK. Both of those friends of mine are intelligent, educated, independent women with very fluent English (and both worked as waitresses).


No, you were referring to Polish women in general - that's what one could understand from your comment ("Polish women have different expectations of marriage.").


Did you tell her how you feel about this?
You know, it could be the case of bad communication in your relationship. Or it could be that your marriage simply burned out (the separation due to you working abroad probably didn't help, I imagine). 10 years is quite a lot, some marriages burn out earlier than that. Maybe you could try to revive your marriage - I don't know - but you both would have to work on that and there would have to be will on both sides...

I think you should talk honestly to her about all of this, about your feelings, that such situation isn't normal in the long term and tell her that if nothing changes you're heading for a divorce. Don't be angry, don't yell at her or sth, don't make accusations, just tell her calmly how you see this. And ask her how she feels about this, does she still have feelings for you, does she miss you when you're away, why doesn't she want to spend time with you when you come to Poland, does she still want to be married to you, etc. At least that's what I would do...

Btw, how old are your kids (if you don't mind saying)? Couldn't she hire a babysitter from time to time in order to have a bit of free time (live a life a bit) for herself when you're away? Did you propose that to her? You know, a woman isn't a one-man army. Mothers/wives need some rest too and some time to relax.

@Paulina

I think that communication is an issue, as when I try and discuss things, its always "nows not the right time", or cant do something because of ____reason(s).

Another thing is we have different view points with regards to the kids. She is controlling and over-disciplined, and I'm more laid back. But her way is always better, of course. So for instance, if one of my children is playing with a toy, she'll make them tidy that toy away before moving onto the next, whereas i would care, and make them clean up all the toys at the end.

Paulina I hope you paid more attention in university than you do here.

Some of my comments were about Polish women in general. Some were about the OP's wife in particular. Just to clarify:

It's my experience that there is a well established custom in Poland of husbands (and sometimes wives, yes I agree) working and living in another country for years on end with visits home ranging from frequent to less so. So it's a cultural norm that doesn't cause any surprise in a community and which many women accept as normal. The OP's wife doesn't think there's anything odd about it so she can't see why he's making an issue of it. In the UK on the other hand it would be considered a very strange, unnatural and unsatisfactory way of life.

However, my other comments about children first, herself and her family next and him last as her priorities were about that woman in particular. Having said that, there are a lot of women, not just in Poland but everywhere, who after ten years of marriage have largely lost interest in their husbands romantically, haven't forged any bond of deep friendship with them and thus their closest emotional attachment is to their children

Or less and visa versa as the wife cops an attitude, boys haircut and starts waddling.
I think they call it the seven year itch.
And if that doesn't loose the romantic interest the men on pause is sure to.
Now we are down to his golden paycheck and when that is gone all romance is gone.
Men should be taught in a pre marriage class that his children, his mother in law and his wife herself will always come before him in his marriage.

And that is just a fact of life and why men are called the "beast of burden".

I think i am going to talk to my wife about these issues. If there is no consensus, then I'll meet a divorce lawyer to see where i stand.

Does anyone know how long divorce takes in Poland?

Like anywhere.......many factors and variables here.
Will she contest it
Will she agree to said child support
Will she agree to property division
Will she agree to let you see your children
Will she agree with out contesting you
The more she contests the longer and more expensive it will be.
The sad part is that your mother in law (the witch) is the one responsible for this.
Don't be blind.


Telling her daughter that she was to old to work at McDonalds.
Mile's ass, you do what you have to do is how you make both ends meet.
NO......the real reason is that grandma wouldn't be able to see her grandchildren or have any influence/control over them while they grew up.

Your mother in law is a CONTROL FREAK !
Grow some nads son and tell her old lady to go mind her own damn business.
If you are going to let your mother in law be in charge of your marriage you deserve everything that you are going to get.

Dig your heels in boy and fight for your woman if you love her.
Mother in laws cause so many divorces because once they get their grandchildren they want to raise them how they see fit and the father of her grandchildren stands right in the way for her to do it.

Butt out grandma, go take a long walk off a short pier.

...and her daughter. That may actually be true (at least partly).

Johnny's correct. from the been-there-done-that stand point, mother-in-laws can wreck marriages unless kept at a distance or if your wife doesnt listen to her for some reason. you need to get her away from the meddling parent or youre done for sure. varying version of your situation Play out over and over in poland. most mother in laws are wenches who come carrying bigos

@BritboyByd

It sounds like your mind is already very made up.

You got some good advice from someone already here which was to withdraw from the forum for a while and think about what YOU want to do. We will give you our opinion but it will be tainted by our own life experiences. We cannot walk in your shoes.

Communication is the key to most human problems or EFFECTIVE communication at least.

When you tell your wife that the option of living in Poland is non-negotiable I have a feeling that this is a red line for you. What was your original agreement together ? That you would marry and settle down in Poland ?

When you do meet every six weeks or so then does it feel good to be together ?

You say that when you visit she then uses your presence as an opportunity to do the things she can't do when you're in the UK. I have to conclude that either she doesn't care about you OR she doesn't really believe that you are unhappy enough to divorce her.

If you feel that unhappy then make sure that she makes time for you when you're in Poland. Take her somewhere that you can speak to her privately and tell her how you feel. Of course if you don't love her anymore then there is nothing really to salvage.

Spiritus is right, I guess we gave you all the advice, info and opinions that we could. One of my posts was deleted, though, for some strange reason, so in case you'd like to read it - it's here:

polishforums.com/off-topic/random-chat-74400/37/#msg1589337

I've included a lot of thoughts and advice there, so it would be a shame if you'd miss it.

I've also talked to my mum and I've asked her about that relative from the countryside - it turns out that he built a house in Poland for the money that he earned in Germany and lives with his wife and daughter in Poland. So, there you go. As I wrote - when a husband/wife is living and working indefinitely abroad it isn't considered to be normal and you shouldn't be looking at this like it's some kind of "custom" in Poland. It isn't OK and you can tell that to your wife.

In case things won't work out you'll probably need this info - it's about separation and divorce in Poland:

separacja.pl/en

@johnny reb

Amen brother.


It's been getting worse, as we say stuff to each other which we cant do over Whatsapp. We disagree, and end up falling out, and making up just as I fly home. Everytime it happens like this. So every time i leave Pol after a visit i feel like "why do I bother?" and get a sense of relief when going home.

@Paulina

Thanks for the advice. I think this situation was like a "whodunnit" where the perpetrator is revealed in the last episode. The clues were there all along, eg we have just grown apart. I can count on my hand how many times in 5 years me and my wife have been out together on our own. Kids, work, family etc have always got in the way.

I read that the natural rate of divorce is 42%, which isn't great anyway. But what chance of a mixed cultural marriage surviving overseas? 1-5% is my guess.

Don't steal 5 mins of conversation with her. Tell her next time we HAVE to talk. This is important.

We are assuming you want to stay with her but if you don't then advice is pointless-just get a divorce.

I have some good friends here in the UK. The husband worked in the UK for some years whilst his wife worked in Poland although the reality is that she didn't work that much over there as she knew he would support her financially.

After a few years there was an ultimatum, either she come to the UK or the marriage was over. They're now living over here and both working

@spiritus

Cool story at the end.

Oh dear, poor lad.

Ah well, what ya can ya do.

Get her told, it's me or ya mum. The more she is away from you and in the presence of her mother, who by the sounds of it isn't keen on ya, she'll be turned even more to dark side.

I see no future here, eventually it will break down anyway.

*Update*

Just visited Poland. We talked. It seemed, given the circumstances that divorce was the best option given the circumstances etc. So was 95% sure, until i left this morning, when i was looking for something under the bed (my side) and I found another man's watch!

At least i can walk away with dignity and that i did my best until the end.