Polish mother, possible UK father - child law Poland.

my polish g/f i found out some months ago , is preggo - infact , she is due to deliver anytime soon .... in poland.

i am british , have never wanted kids , and on the rare times weve both enjoyed "congress" - ive always used a condom ... which seemlingly didnt fail the last time that we were together...

however , a child on the way maybe the indication that it did ///

im in the uk , she is in poland with her parents and the child will be born very soon

im still not looking forward to being a dad - far from it ... apart from anything , im getting on a bit - havent the time or the resources (im renting a flat in london) - whilst she has every plan to live in poland with the kid- presumably me visiting as an when....

she told me months ago , she wants to be a single mum - that im a freebird - free to do whatever i like - even that she doesnt have to put my name on the official paperwork in poland

now she phones me , tells me she has seen a lawyer and she asks me to sign some form of agreement - a declaration of sorts that would mean my signature / presence will not be required in any decision involving the kid- for example in the application of a passport , medical treatment etc etc

she also says , that just as i can sign such an agreement , im free to " unsign it " - either way , to me this sounds like double talk - a way of limiting removing my rights , my input.

to be fair , if i spend most of my time in the uk - or travel abroad abit im not being the best father to the child anyway - but since the child isnt even born yet , im a bit reluctanct to sign over anything , even tho it maybe convinient / beneficial to her -

she also now tells me , that what she said about things not being official - my name not being on the birth /c etc - if she does this , if indeed i dont put my name on the birth documents etc ... shell make sure i never see the kid anyway - never.

even if i dont put my name down , she has told me that she'll force a dna check anyway

not wanting to be a dad now , im not interested in the child anyway - but things may change ... even so , she wants me to be on the b/certificate etc and sign over on this- meaning my signature wont be required anymore on any official documents / letters ( passport apllications etc) .....

apart from not wanting kids , doing my all to avoid them - i cant help but feel that condom didnt fail - her entire behaviour has struck me as odd , and im reluctant to put my name on the document without a check dna before hand - now she threatens me with never letting me see the kid when it is born , unless i do put myself down as the father , and in addition i sign over , effectivley my fatherly responsibilties vis-a vi the above ... im rather inclined to just let her her get on with it ......

any advice ?

Well, if you do not want to be a father, then why would you even think about signing those papers? If being a father is the last thing on your mind then you clearly shouldnt be worried about seeing the baby when its born, right?

Yeah, advice. Man up and quit bs excuses. Don't have sex if you don't want kids yet.
And now go and take care of your soon to be born baby. She can say what she wants, you must do what is right.

First off man up and take responsibility. It took the two of you to make this child. Once he/she is born get a DNA test if it's yours then decide if you want to be in the child's life.

Shut up idiots, its pretty obvious she doesn't think hes the father and that shes fitting him up.

Nothing till a dna test has been done dude - play it safe, no signing, no admittance, no nothing.

The fact that shes dithering suggests she knows he may not be the true father and just trying to con him into child care payments, but at the same time covering her tracks for fraud purposes.

If you admit expect a Polish court judgment for child care payments.

The above only applies if you can be SURE the condoms never failed!!!!

man up ?

if i took precautions - and she didnt ,,

if she never took a pill , used a coil , would never consider abortion , and wanted to be preggo - despite knowing i dont want kids ( condom use is a good sign) theirs no manning up about it ...

especially when there are other ways of getting preggo - eg ... using a sprm youve obtained with from a handjob - it can be done..

using a used condom - it can be done ( this is infact official nhs guide lines for getting pregnant for hiv couples)

there are all sorts of duplicituos means .....

Do not sign anything at all until you have in your hands the results of a DNA test that you commissioned. Do not even verbally state that the child is yours.

so you are saying she might have 'milked' you while you were passed out and inseminated herself with a turkey baster?
I have heard it all now....

I was just like you seven years ago. I did not want responsibilities. I had what I thought was a casual affair and my partner got pregnant. I was 53 and she new that I did not want children, but, s**t happens. I never thought of a DNA test, I could even pinpoint when the child was conceived. After the initial shock, I prepared to become a father. I bought a house with a big garden and got everything ready for the arrival. I thought I had had a good life, I was successful in business, had travelled extensively and had everything that I wanted.

Nothing,but nothing has given me as much joy as my daughter, every day I watch her grow gives me so much pleasure. By all means get the DNA test done, but, if this child is yours then you would be an idiot not to be a part of the child's life and you will regret it for the rest of your days.

Exactly that. If you sign anything admitting that the kid is yours without seeing a DNA result, you can expect the Polish court to hit you with child support payments: while you can sign away your rights when it comes to a child, you cannot sign away your responsibilities. Polish family courts are evil places that you do not want to go anywhere near under any circumstances. I certainly wouldn't trust them to order her to have the baby take a DNA test or to impose any penalty on her for refusing to do that if they do order it, and when I say 'impose any penalty', I do include the court agreeing that you can stop your support payments until such time that she has a DNA test done on the baby.

dont get me wrong - her last words were , if you dont put yourself on the birth certificate ... "ill get a court ordered dna on you " - when ive questioned her about that i used a condom - her reply has always been .."theyre only 99 per cent reliable" - if u dont believe me - you can get a dna check done ....

almost as if to call my bluff,,

i will do a check , but to be honest the fact that shes threathens to blank me out - never to let me see the kid unless i put myself on the b/cert- makes me want to call her bluff - apart from anything thing else , if you as the mum genuinely knew the dad was the dad - regardless of him signing anything - youd hardly say to him - "youll never see the kid ".... if you dont sign the dotted line...

in her past she has told me she "needs to prgnant and have a kid by such and such time"

that also if i cant have a kid with u , ill have one with someone else ...

i should have left her then - but i didnt ,

You reply "No need, I will arrange for a DNA test to be done. If you don't like the result, you can get a Polish court ordered one."


She cannot legally do that. Even if you don't pay a penny towards the kid, she cannot legally prevent you from seeing the kid. However, it would be helpful if you can get her to make that threat in writing (or at least record her saying that).

she sounds like a manipulative cow and as Harry said, organise your own dna test.
she does not have the 'right' to do this to you or her daughter, in fact the only person with 'rights' is the child,
and she has a 'right' to a relationship with her father, no matter what the mother says.

Thats not quite how some Polish Family Courts think when johnny foreigner is involved. She can very easily remove all his rights dependent on how vindictive the judge is to foreigners. Even there own abroad in some cases.

Here is Donald Tusk answering a question about Child Abduction. What hope has Poland got of sorting anything out with someone like this in charge?



Edit.

I am a bit confused by all of this.

First, you say your girlfriend, but she sounds I think like your ex.
She wants to have the baby for herself and not have you involved.
You have good reason to think you might not be the father.
She was desperate to have a child, obviously the biological clock was ticking, and she made it clear she didn't want to waste any time with you if you weren't going to have a child with her. Either the child is someone else's, or she got pregnant by some sort of trick, without your knowledge/consent.

Ok.

So why does she now pop up and want you on the birth cert, so the child has a certified father, but want you to sign away the joint rights of a parent, so she doesn't need to ask you whenever she wants to organise anything for the child? If she doesn't want you interfering, then why have you on the birth cert at all?

I think ...

You probably are the father, BUT, you must have the DNA test as soon as the child is born.

You might not be the father - she might have done any number of things to get pregnant - but she, whether you are or aren't, wants a father on the cert.

There are only two reasons she would want you on there, having previously (before the lawyer's visit) said she didn't want you.

1. She doesn't want 'father unknown' on there as that sounds kind of slutty on her part.
2. If a father is named, he can be forced to provide child support.

I suspect No. 2 is uppermost in her mind ...

Basically, she wants you to pay, but she doesn't want you to be involved, and she doesn't want to have to negotiate with you when she has to do anything for the child (in Poland you can't even send off for the kid's passport - both parents must be physically present, and the child, to fix it).

No question of this - I know my answers:

1. Tell her you can't do anything until the child is born and a DNA test is done.
2. Tell her that if you are the father, you will go on the birth cert and sign the form she wants.
3. Have the DNA test.
4. If you are the father, go on the birth cert but then say you have changed your mind and want contact with your child and will not sign the form she wants.

And then, be involved in some way in your child's life. She can't stop you having access to the child. You will probably have to go through the courts, but so be it.

Do not sign up to pay but give up all rights and give her all the power. No way. She will only do what suits her, and you are only, and have only ever been, a pawn here.

But the real truth is that you might - if you are very lucky - have a son or daughter on the way. You are right to realise that although you thought you didn't want a kid, maybe you will change your mind.

And let's face it: every child has a right to know their father, and to love and be loved by their father. Do you want to lose out on that? Not if you have learnt anything in all these decades you've been around ... : ) Come on. The joy of seeing your child grow up really is something special. If you've been given this, make the most of it.

She doesn't want you in it because she wants all that pleasure for herself. But your child would suffer, of course, if he or she thought their dad didn't want anything to do with them. That would be an awful burden to set your own family off with. This is your flesh and blood. This person is all of you, and all of her. OK, yes, her DNA is there as well - but just wait until you see yours coming out in the child, and you will feel different, I think.

But at the moment: hold fire: tell her DNA test first, everything else after.

She is a sly bugger, that's for damn sure. Don't trust her.

That isn't true. For a five-year passport (i.e. kid under 13), it must be either both parents in person or one parent and a notarised letter of consent from the other parent, kid is not needed. For a ten-year passport (i.e. kid 13 or over), it must be both parents or one parent plus kid.


There most certainly is something in what you say.


That's the answer.

sorry - to be fair I was actually thinking about when Poles in the UK go to the Embassy in London - then it seems that both parents and child have to be there - I did question that, but everyone said that was how it has to be. Maybe it isn't true, but that is what they have all been led to believe : )

If he is the father, he should support, but also have the chance to be a father. Not pay but relinquish all responsibilities, rights and access. That is just using him, and also is not good for the child.

Maybe she went to a sperm bank ...

Natasia/Harry that is a little miss-leading. OK it is the law but all she has to do is go to court and she has the passport. The family courts are flexible when it suits them. I have seen several examples of this but obviously I cannot divulge.

Man, I am Polish. And I know how the Polish Family Courts works.
My single and most important advice: DON'T SIGN ANYTHING! Don't declare anything.

Explanation:
Yes. That is true that one can sign such a document. One can declare that he is not interested in the child's affairs and that he rely entirely on mother. But ONLY father can sign that declaration.

In other words - by signing this agreement you would officially declare yourself as a father of the child. At the same time - you would deprive yourself of any right to the child. Mother will decide about every aspect of the child upbringing. She may even decide to deny you any contact with the child.

BUT - you will be still need to pay a child's support. Got it? By signing this document you would deny yourself ANY RIGHTS except the right to pay money. In my humble opinion - this is a deal from Hell. Don't sign it, man.

My advice: wait.
If she is sure that you are the father, she would need to prove it before the Family Court. Probably the DNA test would be ordered. If the Court decide that you are a father indeed - you will have to deal with it.

But something indicate that she is not so sure about who the father is.
If she would be sure at 100% she wouldn't mind to go to Family Court. But obviously - she is trying to avoid the courts. Instead she is trying to "solve the problem" in a very manipulative and wicked way.

Third and the last time: Don't be a fool. Don't sign it.

Excellent advice. I'd go one further: do not sign anything and do not admit in writing (email, SMS, etc) or even verbally that you think the kid is yours. Keep saying that you do not think that the kid is yours but you are happy to arrange a DNA test if the court want that.

Like I said, play along, say you will sign, but DNA test first, then sign birth cert but don't sign that crazy paper ... like enkidu said ... like Harry said.

One thing is sure: she has A PLAN. And that plan certainly isn't designed to promote your well-being, you can bet on that. Or the kid's really. It is her plan. To have things arranged as she wants it.

You were a sperm bank.
Now you are going to be bank rolling her life.
If you aren't careful.

You might even give British nationality to a Polish guy's kid. That would be noble. :)

you folks - you are all great .... i cant say how much i appreciate your feedback ...

natasha - i have to admit , in the weeks since ive returned to the uk , it really feels as tho she is my ex- certainly only an ex can tell a guy he will never see his kid if he doesnt sign on line ...

my earnest wish , is the child isnt mine either - a fully committed family is one thing - but a woman who from the very start wants to be a single mum is another it leaves you feeling preety cold.

only time and a dna check will tell me the true story , in meantime - ill probably post again - if only for the recommendataion of a polish lawyer should i need one.

i did speak to one in england , but it turns out he was actually the equivalent of a "paralegal" - he was also expensive , perhaps a lawyer in poland maybe the way to go ....

once again - cheers guys.

the baby is born .

i went to poland , and demanded a dna test there and then ( i had a widely available "boots"dna testing kit with me - same one she's always suggested i could use if i dont believe the baby is mine).

i went to poland unannounced , and i could tell by her body language i am not welcome.

lots of questions like why do you want to see the baby , why are you even here ? -

now , i admit that ive never wanted childeren , and i tell her that if clock could be turned back , things would be different.

but what do you do for rest of your life - hate the child?

im here to see my baby , but her negative put downs -her constant demands / refrain , that all she wants to be is a single mum - are tiring to say the least .

she asks me what im doing in poland - at which point i say , because i want the child tested .....NOW

she refuses , tells me shes changed her mind about using the boots paternity kit i have with me - instead shell get a court ordered test......which i doubt she ever will.

in my situ , for certainty sake at least .................how would you compel a woman to test ?

truth is everything , and knowing one way or the other is a relief.

First of i'm surpised to learn this woman went back to Poland and is staying there.

There's hordes of women from Poland in the UK that came over here purely to "make a better life for my baby".. ie - Scounring benefits.

Yes thousands of Polish single mummies are living of UK tax payer money as we speak.
The lady in question must be from a unusually well off family. If not - expect her to be in the United Kingdom living on housing benefit within the next few years.

Actually she's probably in Poland at the minute because she feels safe, and is there to let things settle down.

Hicks,
You need to learn the difference between "of" and "off" before you take any school exams.

Hudson, bottomline is SHE doesn't need HIM to do this, so your cooment doesn't help much. To be honest I don't think he can xo anything to firce paternity test, unless she wants money, and then court will order the test. The test OP brought will not be valid anyway.

He can but then he has to go to court.

Even then, it might be difficult to force paternity test, especially if she says that he is NOT the father.

Very interesting situation. It is obvious that she has a hidden agenda. The question really still comes down to whether the baby is yours or not. If the baby is with someone else she might be trying to trap for sure as the exchange on UK currency to PLN would be a nice payment. Looking at all the info that I have seen one thing sands clear and that was the fact the she wanted to get pregnant whether by you or someone else. Previous advice really stand true. sign nothing and have the test. The fact that she was cold when you visited suggests there is definitely more going on here then what meets the eye.

"Hidden"? Nothing hidden. She wants your money.

Don't try to solve the problems yourself. Leave it to the courts.