What is wrong with Poznan?

Why should any healthcare system provide interpreters for foreign employees/students, simply to allow them to communicate with its clients in their own language? It would be far more reasonable to expect the employee/student to speak the language required.

Thankfully, in this case - the translators are paid for by the fees that they pay.

Still doesn't excuse the utter disgrace of people getting treated like a commodity by students that can't be bothered to learn a few sentences.

Sorry for the confusion but by translators I meant that we have students in our group who are fluent in Polish and do the translating. In groups where there are no Polish speakers the doctors translate. In any case, it wouldn't be the "health care system" paying for a translator, it would be the university that we pay a tuition fee to attend funding it so don't worry.


You simply don't like the idea of a Polish patient encountering a foreign medical student, as if that some how takes away from the quality of their medical care.

The program is offered as an English language program which means we are not expected to have a working knowledge of Polish to be here. Most importantly, just because we don't all speak Polish doesn't mean that we treat patients here with any less respect and dignity than we would in our home countries. We all have extreme empathy for the patients we encounter and students from NA often give far more care and attention to a patients privacy and dignity than most Polish doctors care to consider.

Most patients should be happy to have an encounter with students (Polish or foreign) because that means they often have 5-6 fresh minds considering the state of their health in addition to their regular health care provider.

You're right, I don't like the idea of it. I know first-hand how it's done, and it's intrusive - and most of all - the patient often isn't informed about the sudden presence of the students.


You're not expected to do anything but pay. I've heard all about these infamous New York "interviews".


If you respected them, you and your ilk would bother to learn some conversational Polish to put the patient at ease. But hey, you just can't be bothered, can you?


If that was true, you'd learn how to speak to them in their own language. But again - the same arrogance - "we from NA care more than Polish doctors".


They should be happy with foreign morons who are only there because they were too stupid to go to medical school in their own country? I certainly wouldn't be impressed!

Lol, I'd like to see that in the U.S., a foreign medical student barely able to say a few words in English allowed to "attend" to patients without a qualified translator present.

Yes, there is quite a lot to worry about for Polish patients here, so please be so kind and don't brush them off.


Very true.

are you serious. the last thing i wanted on my hospital stays was a student.

i'm still here because of fully trained paramedics, nurses, doctors and consultants, not half-trained know-alls.

Is that because you are inherently better than Polish doctors?

From someone who was recently in hospital (not me, but in the same room as me) -

- American students turned up and were given a list of symptoms. They were then asked to identify what could be wrong - and not one of them had a clue. None of them even tried to come up with answers, and none of them had any response when asked "what can we do to help the patient?". The doctor was also visibly pissed off with them for not even showing any interest. What made it even worse was that they were incredibly rude, not even replying when spoken to in English.

And that's exactly what happens when you let people into university based on their ability to pay.

From my perspective, I certainly wouldn't want a bunch of chimps who paid their way into the university even looking at me. The fact that the one on this thread has even admitted that he wasn't good enough to get into Canadian medical school - I wouldn't want him near me!

Exactly.

I'd fully expect a hospital which would practice such shenanigans ( foreign medical students attending patients without a qualified translator present ) in the States to get sued for all they had.

What you do not understand is that these students feel entitled to buy a degree.It has to do with position of money and connections in today world.In fact most of them think that test scores for admissions should not matter at all.in nearbyUkraine you can buy each exam for 50$ and they will be grateful for that.School also costs much less however it lacks relatively in prestige compared to EU school.

hold on. having a student in the hospital is the best thing. they are being taught so the teacher will want to do everything by the book.

stop attacking him. Poland can be frustrating and all of you know it.- you have probably all felt the same way at one point or another. he is right- dog shiit, crap drivers, and i can add a few more- men that blow their nose with no tissue while walking around (i almost died when i first saw this) drunks that hang out at the bus stop, poczta, rude sales clerks and my favourite- people that save a place in line while continuing to shop.

I was just in the hospital at the beginning of dec. i was asked if it would be ok to have a student observe at any point, of course i agreed- big deal. but they are required to ask first.

there is a whole band of Norwegian students at medical schools in Poland- it is the same thing as in Canada, difficult to get accepted into schools and shortage of dr.'s. Perhaps Americans are looking for an easy way to become a dr to then get a kick back from a drug company. not in canada- drug companies cannot advertise in canada and dr.'s cant push a specific drug legally and salaries are not the same as in the u.s.

True for Polish students, not so true for foreign students.


The problem is that in Poznan, the whole thing is a cash-cow - and they don't bother to ask patients first.


Norwegians are, on the whole, far nicer. I've never seen drunk Norwegians abusing cashiers, or acting like they're some sort of gift to Poland.

You've read the thread pip - he clearly thinks he's better than "this stupid country". Funny though - it's all coming out now - he hates it and wants to go home.

Yes, the kid clearly has an attitude.

I wouldn't mind either - the next generation of doctors have to learn sometime.


Fortunately hospitals in Europe have a rather more sensible approach.

You do realize what you've said applies to both foreign and Polish medical students right?


If you bothered to read what I mentioned earlier, there are a number of students in my group and most others who are fully fluent in Polish and are able to put the patients at ease.


You don't have to be able to speak to somebody in their language to have empathy for them. And when it comes to patient Privacy and Dignity we often do care more than a lot of Polish doctors. This is a cultural fact and the behaviour of these doctors is not meant in an offensive way, but it is simply their way of doing things here. For example, we had a doctor asking a 16 year old girl about her menstrual cycles in front of her father. After the interview we asked the doctor why she hadn't asked the father to leave prior to talking with the patient and the doctor said that she simply hadn't considered it.


I said they should be happy with students, foreign or Polish. However, it is obvious 99% of patients are not happy to have students present (I know I wouldn't want them there either). Unfortunately if this was the case there would be no future generation of doctors so it has to be this way.


We're not making any decisions with regard to patient care, all of that is decided by their doctor so there is no risk to the patient at all.


This is an extremely obvious statement


I already responded to this so no need to repeat myself. I have a lot of respect for the doctors that train us.


This is a fault with the University which does nothing to get rid of bad students because they want our $, I totally agree with that. All I can say is that not all students are like that and there are those of us who truly care.

17k PLN buys you what? The tuition at Poznań is over 18,000 USD!


I'm happy you showed your complete ignorance regarding the program. Many of the final exams given in Poznań to the English speaking students are the NBME exams (US National Board of Medical Examiners). Hardly "dumbed down", they are in fact the same exams given to students at US medical schools.

Yes, and I'm sure that all of the exams given right up until the final exam are at least as difficult as exams given at US unis, aren't they.

Apology accepted :) However, your wrong to think there aren't any Americans dumb enough to mix up "your" and "you're." ;)

He he i was going to say that earlier, hes almost been run over 100 times!

you telling me in a hundred attempts you still havent been able to figure out how to avoid being nearly run over? Kind of like Groundhog day.

Why are you studying in Poznan WHS? and whos paying for it?



From: mdprogram.com/medical-programs-6-year-md.php

Is it a rule to take things literally here? Seems like that's how ppl do it

and as such contradicts your original point.


have you ever been in intensive care and had students mull of what might or might not be wrong ? i have.

think of it from the point of view of the patient who may think he/she is at death's door. when you qualify and start doing your hospital rounds please limit the number of students to two or three and have them keep their mouths shut. the patient has nothing else to do than take in all that is front of him. just one ill informed clown and the patient's confidence can go right out the window.

WhyMedSchool

I've already told you he won't stop teasing you.

Linia "L" is calling.

Yes, delphi said you could "buy a degree" for 17K PLN. Last I checked, the dollar sign does not indicate PLN. As seen in this link, the 4 year program is even more expensive. ump.edu.pl/index.php?strona=3_491_1265898771&am=793,900

I noticed Delphiandomine never did bother to state what his credentials were in allowing him to judge the quality of medical education at Poznań. As far as I can tell from this thread, it seems to be spending a lot of time hanging out at BP and P&P near the dorms. Really? Makes me wonder if he's even qualify for admission to the 6 year program!

I've just checked if there are NBME tests at the university of the medical student I know (and mentioned before). And yes, their site says so. Given what she has told me:


something doesn't match up here.

I think that it might be that Polish medical studnts learn more theory even of subject which won't be important for doctors of certain specializations, while students of English studies learn only things which are in their narrow specialization. (I don't if it's the case, I'm just guessing that it could be like that)

I also asked you a question - how many students dropped out after the first year from your group?

What's comical is the usage of a sockpuppet ;)

This Whymedschool guy has a real chip on his shoulder about Poland. This is his reply to another thread

"Living in Poland can be a real huge pain in the ass. There are no words to describe how bad the bureaucracy is - I have seen people reduced to tears by it. You will go crazy for the first while trying to sort everything out. When it comes to Polish people you will find they are either extremely friendly and open, or the exact opposite. They don't try to hide their feelings, and if they are an ******* on the inside, they will show it on the outside - and this goes from your everyday thug on the street to the cashier in your local grocery store. Don't be surprised by the attitude, rather expect it. Also, you will get a lot of looks and that is also something to prepare for. Best of luck, I hope it works out."

I think I know why he is posting here. "Also I'm bored of studying." He has this posted on another thread, maybe he is afraid of telling his daddy that he wants to go home early

By the way, if he is from Canada, what will he do when a french speaking citizen is admitted to him in Canada. When you move to another country, you are meant to adjust yourself to its culture and way of doing things.

It does add up - while they might get the same tests, it doesn't mean they're marked so...strictly. The whole point is to keep the cash coming in - so they're not going to give them difficult tests which result in a high drop-out rate.

The Polish students on the other hand - well - they don't want too many doctors qualifying, do they?


Course he does - he's here, buying himself a medical degree (because he was too stupid to get one in Canada) - and he hates it. Quite normal, and not at all surprising. You see the exact same with British expats who hate their fortune in Poland but are stuck here for one reason or another.

Beats me why he stays if he's nearly been run over 100 times though. Or is it, just like the rest of his posts, an exaggeration?

wait a sec- his assessment is pretty accurate.
Canada is bilingual- those that work in the public sector speak two languages.
he is doing fine- he just voicing his frustrations now everybody back off.

like Poland has never seen obnoxious americans, brits, germans, russians, french etc etc. Poland can be frustrating- stop stoning him

Maybe number 101 will be success.