What is wrong with Poznan?

Really?

Do they really spend their entire time in closed communities, never encountering someone who only speaks Arabic?

Seems terribly rude not to learn some of the language of the country, even if not to fluency - how difficult is it to obtain a passing knowledge of a language?

Medical students have far to much important material to commit to memory rather than to waste their time learning Polish. Would you rather know how to speak Polish or recognize the signs and symptoms of a myocardial infarction?

Again, arrogance. The fact that you think that learning Polish is a "waste of time" says it all - don't you think that anyone with half a brain would see that a knowledge of Polish could come in terribly useful if dealing with a Polish patient in the future? Then again - why bother, because they're going to clean McDonalds when they go back anyway.

Why is it that the Asians seem to be able to learn Polish (I even know one who teaches in Polish part time) - but the ones from "over the pond" can't? Why is it that they also find time to be drunken ********, but not enough time to learn some Polish? They certainly have enough parties there!

Let's be honest - the real reason they don't learn is because they think they're better than the "stupid locals" who should all speak English anyway.

Let's not talk about how they actually have to deal with real patients, yet many of them are so arrogant that they can't even be bothered to use basic Polish with such patients.

Since polish is a rather difficult language ability to learn polish soon shows much about the intellectual capacity of a foreign student in my opinion.For example practically all foreign students in Romania speak Romanian but this does not tell a thing about them since Romanian is a rather easy language.But most students studying in CR do not speak any Czech at all because Czech is rather difficult.

On the other hand all students studying in Russia and Ukraine speak Russian despite Russian being a difficult language.However this mostly happens because due to bribing for the exams they have plenty of time to focus on women and other activities so sooner or later they learn Russian.

@delphiandomine

I guess as a medical student you know what you're talking about right??? Oh wait, you have no idea and just talk sh*t hahaha

Why not come to the hospitals and follow around a group of medical students before you talk about our language competence. Most students will use the most basic phrases they know in Polish with patients such as greeting them politely, asking them to breathe deeply (prosze głęboko od dychać) etc. You talk about my arrogance but it's your assumptions about the way we conduct ourselves that really stands out.

Or just laziness - I managed to pick up a bit and my time there was much richer for it (and the locals disrespect you far less if you make the effort.) It came in very handy in Sudan where there aren't hordes of English-speaking Filipinos and Indians running around cleaning up after you and now in Doha, I'm very glad I can speak with the locals without expecting them to speak my language.


When you're in Poland it isn't a waste - or especially difficult.


Very different skills - and when in Poland the former is essential. What do you do if you want to buy something in a shop, talk to your neighbours or order a taxi?


Exactly.

That's utter nonsense. The "real" reason they don't learn Polish is because they are students and not permanent citizens. They are all acutely aware that their time in Poland is limited so there is very little use in learning detailed Polish. I have never said anything in my posts about the locals being stupid and for you to say something like that makes you look very insecure.

How long, out of interest?

I couldn't pass up this topic. What is wrong with Poznan? I couldn't believe reading that because Poznan is my favorite city in Poland and one of my favorite in the world. But after reading all the posts I wonder how it got to be a discussion about med school.

But anyway, the traffic light button thing seems like a silly statement. Almost everywhere in the world has buttons. As someone else wrote it is to give time to cross the street since car traffic and pedestrian traffic do not always coincide.

And then the tram tickets, really? Poznan is not the best place I have ever been for automatic machines but it is far from the worst. For years they have had the automatic machines in the rynek and train station, and then almost all shops sell them. If it is so difficult for you try buying one or two extra ahead of time. It makes it much easier. And for comparison I currently live in Szeged, Hungary. There is only one automatic machine in the city and buying tickets is very difficult(plus 3 times as expensive as a Poznan ticket). I have been caught twice in Budapest going from the train station to the airport because there are no automatic machines or shops. The city knows that there is no where to purchase a ticket from these two points so they can make great money with fines. So Poznan is far from bad.

But I guess everyone has different experiences. I disagree with all the negatives that you have posted. I love the Poznan people(especially the women) and have always had a good time. The rynek is beautiful and fun. I have no complaints after living there for a year. It beats out the 3 months I lived in Warsaw by far and the 6 months I lived in Krakow by a decent amount.

Generally you will come across doctors twisted logic when discussing such issue for example time spending on pleasure like learning a language is sacrificed from practical activities like putting drips or doing sutures so one should feel guilty for knowing polish.In fact any knowledge of slavic languages makes western doctors suspicious.

It depends on the program. There are four year and six year MD programs, and there is also a five year dentistry program.

Even a four year stay in a country makes it very worthwhile picking a bit of the language up. Hard not to really - I was chattering away after a year and a half of not really trying very hard to learn. And you never know when it might come in useful later.

Poznan can be a bit frustrating though. I lived there with my Polish partner. We made some friends, but none of them actually Poznaniaks. Awkward people.

I'm not trying to say Poznan is a crap whole. To be honest, I was just venting after almost being run over by a car for the 100th time at the same intersection I cross every day. Of course there are places that are better/worse but I still stand by my assertion that there things they could do to make it safer for pedestrians, not just in Poznan but in Poland and Europe in general it seems.

Here is a real life anecdote from a fair city of Poznań:
Long time ago, in the 50s, ZMP - the communist youth organization - had a big power to intervene into anything that happened at universities, including grading foreign students from brotherly socialist countries - Africa, Middle East and Asia. Professor K. from Poznań University of Technology, a man with a rigid moral spine, after given a stern warning against failing too many of those students, turned 180 degrees around and started grading every foreign student with 5 mark (grade A, 100%). This made some ZMP activists a bit uneasy, since they knew that the good professor was not easy to be influenced by anybody, including young communists. When questioned about his new tactics he answered: "Well, if any bridge they built ever collapses, I will have this satisfaction that it won't be in Poland."

Delph: I give you 20 points in appreciation of your valiant defence of my former home city. When you reach 100 points I will let you in secret of a good place where my very close relative, aside from studying at Medical School, bakes pastry, including NA cookies, and serves dozens specialty coffees. :-)

WhyMedSchool: When I first moved to Poznań I did not like it either. Proverbially frugal people, nothing in common with Easterners, the proverbial spenders - "zastaw się a postaw się" types, as my mom used to say. When in street car in Wrocław one drunk could make everybody laugh and joke together. Not in Poznań - everybody would stick to himself/herself. But then I learned that you need to earn their trust first and so they would open their hearts to you.

I saw these pictures from Poznań yesterday. I liked them; Poznan is not boring at all:
johntigert.posterous.com/poznan-people-polish-independence-day

Do you mean that you have the same programme and the similar tests in terms of difficulty? Then you're wrongly informed.
I know a person who is Polish and studies medicine and said that those tests for foreigners are piece of cake comparing to Polish ones. Also the level of education of those newbies on first year from abroad is lower. The person I know told me once that fist year of foreigners had many things which she (Polish) had in high school!

How do you know what is the level of the tests in Polish if you don't know Polish? Besides that I've already told you that the single exam at the end of 6 years course is (or was) not the end of education. To become a doctor one needed to go through a year (or more?) of an apprenticeship and then pass an exam which I believe was also:


In the last year or in 2010 something has changed in this field, and the person I know who studies medicine told me that the changes are really bad and to look for the year of graduation in future when I'll be visiting doctors ;)

By the way, what year are you?

There is a simple way of measuring a level of education on faculty - what % of students dropped out on first year?

There is no need. It has nothing to do with being arrogant. You'd probably do the same.

So what is it to do with then? Laziness? Lack of respect? Or simple incompetence?

Learning enough of a language to get by isn't very hard. In KSA I knew people who couldn't even tell a taxi driver where they lived - couldn't even say their address, never mind their phone number in Arabic! None of them had a particularly pleasant time there. I have no doubt that such people exist in Poland. It isn't a surprise that the locals have unwavering contempt for them and their stay in the country is a fraction as good as it could be!

The OP would have a much richer time if he just bothered to pick some of the language up. And it would save him future embarrassment when he tells people he spend six years in Poland and can't hold a simple conversation.

It is wrong measure.What matters more is the percentage of applicants admitted to medical school.(eg in US 30%,in Greece 5% etc).There can be of course heavy hand social correcting measure after that(for example admitting more students without exams in second year,third year etc we have to realize that social pressure for admiting mediocrities is enormous).

Learn the look! Really it can work wonders. Look right into the faces of drivers who might be about to go into your lane as if they were total scum. They always stop. A passive aggressive point to the crossing signal works too.

If WhyMedSchool study hard then he has no time for learning Polish. I know that medicine students have no life! When I asked the medicine student if she knows any nice places in her city and whether they party sometimes, she laughed on me. She has no time for that, she reads books all day long, as well as the rest of the medical campus. They have tests (wejściówki) at the beginning of every laboratory lesson and lots to learn on lectures. If someone deosn't learn regulary, will not manage to catch up with later.

WhyMedSchool

delphiandomine is notarious for his dislikes towards Americans (now I see he also dislikes from time to time some Canadians) and you let yourself to involve in his game. You won't win it, he won't stop teasing you, so maybe it'd be better to let it go?

As for the original post, it's always silly to make such sweeping generalisations and even though I've never been to Poznan I can tell you're either completely wrong or you simply don't like Polish nature. Everywhere people are the same. There is no such thing as a distinguish mentality of some cities.

I actually have a very good knowledge of Polish vocab and an ok understanding of basic Polish grammar. I can speak enough to get by with no problems, including talking to patients in the hospitals. My grasp of the language has nothing to do with my fear of dying due to poorly thought out intersections and terrible drivers.

^well, you know what to expect so now all you have to do is anticipate it!

pip is right, people like you really make it harder and harder to distinguish canucks from yanks.
For someone apiring to a very demanding profession, you seem to have difficulty with the most basic of situations.

oh so you lived in Brixton? ..;)

Foreigner4

Lol I assure you I have no problems living in Poznan, I just needed to vent was all and this forum has been a great outlet. A lot of what people have said about missing home is definitely true. I've done my best to focus on the positives about living here while trying to ignore the negatives but every now and then it's good to blow off some steam.

I pretty much figured out on day 2 in Poznan how to give the stare-down to drivers that cut me off and how navigate my way around dog crap on the sidewalks like a pro. Here's the major difference - people from this city grow up with those things and would go mentally insane if they let it bother them every time it happened so they are good at brushing it off whereas I am not. The following forum I think summarizes this well:

Automobiles vs. Pedestrians in Poland

So let me turn it around - if you live in Poznan do you really not care about the crap-covered sidewalks that are falling apart? Are you really not bothered when you're almost run over by a careless driver? Or are you that driver? Just because things are the way the are, doesn't mean they have to stay that way.

Anyone who can learn to program a DVD recorder can learn a few basic phrases of any language. Both take time and effort - but many don't want to "waste" the former (read: lose valuable drinking time) and don't want to bother with the latter (better known as laziness).

People laughed at me for learning some basic Cantonese, because "everyone speaks English in HK" (not true - it's more like 40%), but it's useful at the night markets and in local shops. I can't imagine being in a country for more than a few days without bothering to learn even the most basic of daily phrases.


+1


Part of a medical examination involves taking a history from the patient. Any doctor (or other qualified healthcare practitioner) knows that the diagnosis often comes out of the patient's mouth. How on earth do you manage to take a history if you do not understand a nation's official (or de facto official) language?

So why do African students learn Polish? Why do I have a friend, here for 6 months on Erasmus, who sat down before she came and can now hold a reasonable conversation in Polish? Let's be honest - the "no need" is just an excuse by lazy Americans who, having been too lazy to actually get into a proper university, are now too lazy to actually learn anything.

And you don't have to say it - we all know how your lot holds the locals in utter contempt.


However, they have plenty of time. As I said earlier - a 5 for an English-programme student is often barely a 3 for a Polish student - and they will frequently get a 3 to make sure that they come back for another year of lucrative fees. The whole system is a disgrace - Poznan is unfortunately known in North America as the place to buy a medical education.


Indeed, there's an amusing prior thread by him where he proved incapable of even doing a simple google search. Kinda shows the quality of the graduates of the English-language programmes, doesn't it?


I didn't grow up with these things, but I adapted. It was either adapt or leave - there's no point staying somewhere that you hate.

But really, are you suited to medicine if you can't handle situations like this?


- pavements are like that all over Poland, it's nothing unique to Poznan.
- No, because I cross in sensible places.

Translators

Is the feeling mutual? At least here in Warsaw, certain groups of students are not well liked. Although some are (the engineering students from Nigeria tend to be cracking blokes).

I can guarantee that I have not been "almost run over" by a car that many times in my entire life.

Something tells me it's not Poznan's traffic lights or drivers which are the problem... :p


Nah, he can't have - ya dun kno you can't try a ting like that and get away with it in South :D

A very well paid job, so I hear - translating for medical students.

It's also one of the more disgraceful things that they are allowed loose on elderly patients who don't speak a word of English - often very upsetting for said patients.