Polish pride. PL stickers, flags and the white eagle! Where does our obsession come from?

What, no lessons on Joe Pilsudski?

>^..^<

M-G (surprised)

Except JPII and kaczynski

Ah it's after 1945. So there is history up until 1945 and then a big black gap and things merrily continue in 1989?

>^..^<

M-G (weird)

Although in (Holly) £odż there are lots of things about film stars and musicians. I suppose that's a start.

That's good, because some Polish films made in the era are considered among the best cinematography has to offer.

>^..^<

M-G (personally thinks Man of Marble from 1977 is a great movie)

No, it's called continuity. It's important in building a nation.


Why are you calling it obsession? Who is to decide when is too much and when is not enough? It's all subjective and up for a debate I suppose.


yeah, that's pretty much Marxist thingy

Not so much. Continuity wouldn't explain why the Scots started the English civil war (war of the roses). But you can ask me to bite you again if u dont agree ;) :D

Having a queen and a bunch of freeloaders to support that's what I would call the obsession with the past.
You know, when I was going to school in Poland they 'made us' to carry flags during the May 1 celebration. You should see how we were hiding behind each other not to be the one who gets the flag! Pretty sad, huh? There was no pride then and for a good reason. So if the people want to express themselves now - let them. This too shall pass.

I have no idea why the Scots started the English civil war so I can't comment on that. So no biting. Sorry.

Well its pretty simple, for the same reason the Russian dictator became gave up the Catholic church.


Oh come on, i miss your PM's!

Because he didn't like bishop's hats?


Too bad.

Maybe too pointy!

National pride put on display is good.

But is it true?

Tribal mentality, nothing more. The need to be part of the herd. That sounds a bit more Marxist than my individualist outlook, or?

This conjures images of Mao, Kim Jong-il and Nazi marching parades.\
You'd think they'd have better things to do.

youtube.com/watch?v=nLJ8ILIE780

Well, Americans have much more flags and their national symbols are used on every possible occasion. This is obsession (connected with patriotism, which is not a bad thing). Poles do not have that.

* went to march up and down the square

Or the preservation of collective interests...


Really? Isn't that what this thread is all about?

That's very nihilistic approach. Everybody need to belong somewhere, whether it's family, circle of friends or social group, nation, religion or any other believe system, etc. You need to know where are you coming from and where are you going. Look, for example, at people who were adopted and as adults looking for their natural parents. People with no anchor to something are kinda lost. I would not dismiss that basic need as tribal mentality.

The English civil war... that was down to the prayer book thing and the battle of the bishops (a bit of bishop bashing), I believe. Not sure about how it connects with the wars of the roses.

Etc. I would agree with you in theory, seems plausible. But I can't see 'the problem' in the UK. Hardly any Polish accent, except sometimes on shops with Polish food. And there's a series of Polish sausages with the Polish Eagle, but this is made in the UK clearly by somebody without a clue about Poland. And that's it. With hundreds of thousands of Poles in London itself...

Each and every country is a herd, every national or ethnic group is a herd, you are a part of herd at work,...a family unit is a herd - you name it. People are social animals and need to be a part of a group or a team if you prefer. No individual can survive alone.

Hence, there is nothing wrong with identifying yourself with a country and expressing it, we all do. Some people may just be more open about it than others.

For example look like Palestinians, Kurds, Basks, Quebecers are fighting to establish an independent country. Everybody needs to have their own place in the world.

Here in Greece it is dangerous to display national flags since you might be characterised as fascist and chauvinist.You really risk getting attacked.

Yes, perhaps i was overstating it when i used the word 'obsession'.

It would be a good debate (as long as it didn't degenerate into name calling, as many others do). Funny thing was, I was discussing this with my wife today and when we discussed things like reenactments of battles, I recalled having seen a few in Britain too (although not on the scale or regularity of those done here).

My thoughts were that in Britain we don't celebrate the Spanish Armada every year or the battle of hstings, nor do we run over to france and reenact slaughtering the French on the anniversary of Agincourt (although that might be fun). Likewise, we don't have memorials on every street corner... but that is perhaps because the history of the 20th century has not meant we in Britain have to remember those kinds of events. Somewhere like Ireland, this is more noticeable because of their recent history. The problem is that when you are surrounded by memorials and reminders of the past it may be harder to escape the past.

As we discussed it, I realised I myself had recently been cursing the British Council for refusing to commemorate something. I had written to a friend about seeing if BC might be interested in a project to commemorate the beginning of WW1 (not least because the last british soldier of WW1 had recently died). He got an unoffical reply that they probably wouldn't be doing anything related to the occasion because they preferred to look forward. I thought this was rather questionable...

Therefore, I find myself actually arguing against myself with what I put on this board.
Maybe there is a greater need to remember and express in Poland, having been denied the chance for so long.

My other experience comes with living in Scotland with an English accent. I was often hammered with "Aye, at Bannockburn we sent yeez hameward tae think again!" (it's based on a line from the song "Flower of Scotland") or, some diatribe about what the "English" did at Culloden. Funny thing was, my Scottish family hardly ever mentioned these events, let alone celebrated them. I remeber hearing the Scottish singer Dick Gaughan comment that he didn't like the idea of Flower of Scotland being made national anthem (it isn't) for Scotland, "because it's about the English, and why should my identity as a Scot be based solely on oyr historical relationship with them... why not on something positive about being a Scot." I liked that.

From an English point of view, I find it highly embarrassing that the world is constantly reminded that England won the World Cup in 1966 (and never again!)... also the habit of the red-top papers of constantly using WW2 as a way of attacking Germany and France in any field from politics to sport. Having been working abroad one year, I was mortally embarrassed when The Sun had a headline preceeding an England/Germany game "Achtung, for you ze european cup is over!" I was working alongside Germans, who just asked, "So, for us ze cup ist over, ja?" (I laughed when England were thrashed). But also, as my brother's kids are half German it was also uncomfortable having this constant obsession with the war brought up again and again. I was mortified when a german friend of mine said, "You know, you think you're above it but you do it all the time as well!" i hadn't realised.

I just wonder whether the frequent (constant?) use of Grunwald, WW2 etc is liable to hold back some people from moving on without constantly referring to it, the way many Britons seem unable to do with historical conflicts.

It was pointed out to me that this year was a special anniversary of Grunwald, so that was probably why there was a new monument.


Perhaps, but they are still part of the modern society and are actively involved with changing their role and working in different areas. It's not like they don't exist anymore and there is a big movement to celebrate a lost thing.


The fact this is a recent thing has also been pointed out to me. Perhaps it is that coming from Britain, where such things aren't always done on a such a big national scale with such regularity, that it seems strange to me.

Sorry for the meandering waffle... thanks if you've made it this far.

That's just a sick level of national self-hatred. The sort of which Leftists would love to impart here...

I've heard that in Denmark Christmas trees are ofgten decorated with little Danish flags. That isn't the case in Poland (with Polish flags). Co kraj to obyczaj. Different countries, different ways!

Don't get much mixing of Christmas and patriotism over here either.

There is just too much of it these days. I don't remember so many celebrations being held 10 years ago. Everytime I turn on the TV it's some new commemoration taking place, like the start of WWII, the start of Solidarity, the battle of Warsaw, the battle of Grunwald, the fall of cuminism, etc... I real am tired of all this...


Exactly. People are rediscovering themselves and this is how this process manifests itself. My parents sometmes act as if they feel they are worse than westerners because they spent most of their lifes in a communist state. My generation, on the other hand, feel that we are no worse than the rest of Euros. Nothing wrong about it.

It's become an industry in its own right. I know the other day, I was asking people "uh...why are there flags flying?" - and hardly anyone knew the answer.

They should just announce one date as a general "remembrance" date - have a two minute silence on that day and no more. I'm sick and tired of seeing failures commemorated too -why the hell are people celebrating the Gdansk Agreements when the PZPR had no intention of honouring it anyway?

Bzibby, you just can't compare different times. Go to the glens of Scotland and you won't see battles anymore. I don't need to fight but my fellow countrymen did all those years ago and that brings pride.

Polish pride comes through a sense of shared values and ID. Plastic Poles are welcome to join in on that ;)