Ripped Off in Poland? - Expose here:

Nope

First of all it is good when a Slav rips you off because you contribute to slavic survival.Pay them,give them money to see them smile.After all they were depressed for centuries.

we are just joking k98£_man.


don't be so serious and speak for yourself, nobody's moaning or whining!

Im not :-)

I would not class you are enkidu in ksias league.

Actualy your consumer rights in Poland are almost identical to those in the UK. regardless of any so called guarantee. If the goods are not fit for purpose within 2 years of purchase you have the right for repair or replacement. If repair or replacement can't rectify the problem (eg. It's so crap it's never going to be able to do what they said it would) then the contract can be terminated (you get your money back in other words).

Plus the two year period starts again from the replacement / repair of the goods.

How far you would have to go to enforce it I don't know. But I think if you threatened legal action (seeing as that if the supplier lost he would also have to pay the costs) should usually get the result.

This law has been about since 2003.

Hence all the super warranty offers ( our product comes with a two year warranty ). That's because in law it already does (unless it's clearly stated that the lifetime of the product is limited when you are buying the goods).

You don't have to have the silly warranty documented stamped and signed. You do need to keep the original proof of purchase (this is your contract).

good for you hun!

I'm not sure what is 'ksias league' though?

If moaning was an olympic sport she would be the gold medal winner for sure :-)

That's useful to know. And pissed on Magdalena's chips somewhat.

I suspect most retailers here wouldn't be helpful - your have to go to the Ministry of Consumer Matters to enforce it, or hire a lawyer.

The difference is your initial point of contact. In the UK, you take it back to the shop, in Poland, you take it back to the manufacturer/distributor. The shops here are just warehouses with cash registers.

Yep. That's useful to know. Other thing that is useful: This is a producer responsibility, not the shop owner to replace faulty product. That is why you shouldn't expect any apologies from salesman. They consider it not their fault. (we can discuss if that is a right approach, but well - that's how it is)

that's the thing. it's only like that because it is accepted.

It's accepted as a law of this land.
I know that the UK laws are better, but blaming and moaning at Poland for not being UK is simple pointless.

It's not blaming and moaning. It's just that the average consumer in Poland expects and accepts far less for their money than they should. The law of the land can be changed, hopefully it will change here in the direction of the consumer. People have to complain about it to get it changed, begrudging acceptance only ends up causing everyone to be pissed off all the time.

According to the Act of law. If the defect occurs within 6 months of purchase it is the sellers responsibility as it is assumed that the defect was there at the moment of purchase.

So within 6 months you can go back to where you bought it and ask them for a replacement or if you don't want to struggle to much accept waiting for a repair ( but legaly you have the option as to whether it's a repair or replacement ). Even in the case of a repair it has to be within a reasonable time period (what this means in reality I have no idea).

Interestingly enough the law also states that the supplier is also responsible for any costs involved in replacing the goods in service. But I think this would be more applicable to say the costs of a great Polish plumber removing and then replacing a defective boiler for example. Unfortunately it probably doesn't cover my time and travel expenses to return to the shop where I bought my crappy chinese DVD player. (But you never know perhaps I should try a test case). ;)

That is great. Was it part of the change in the law in 2003?

Legally, I am afraid, you have to accept repair offer. Refund or replacement are an option only if repair is unsuccessful.

so what happened to those batteries???????

"Slavic muddle" is the term traditionally used in English.

On the whole, consumer rights are dependent on knowing how things work locally. Here, that includes knowing how to effectively complain in Polish, which means not really complaining as such. One trick (besides knowing which fights are worth it and which to walk away from) is to phrase things so that you and the person you're complaining to are on the same side. Another is to not lose your temper, you'll get further by being pleasant (while making it clear you're not going anywhere until you're satisfied).

Yeah, I've had some bad experiences here with bad products and/or service, but on the whole not really more than in the US. I even remember how in the early 90's I bought a radio from a sidewalk vendor and took it back the next day and exchanged it because it didn't work right. On the other hand, I mostly find Polish bureacracy easier to deal with then US bureaucracy, so what do I know?

I'll be damn sure not to puchase any batteries, when I visit Poland in the summer, lol.

stevepl

"Actualy your consumer rights in Poland are almost identical to those in the UK".

"How far you would have to go to enforce it I don't know. But I think if you threatened legal action (seeing as that if the supplier lost he would also have to pay the costs) should usually get the result".

"(But you never know perhaps I should try a test case)."

I booked a flight through a Polish travel agent in Jan, 2005.The departure from Warsaw was on the 15th May, 2005. The Polish holiday company cancelled the flight and only wanted to refund 75% of the cost of the tickets. I explained to them that they not only had to give me a refund, they also had to compensate me with 400 euros for each ticket. I refered them to EU regulation 261/004 and was told that they were not obliged to obey EU regulations.

I have spent thousands of PLN going to the highest courts in Poznan (this court knew I did not speak Polish and promised a translator, when I arrived for the case, they told me they had forgotten to organise one) and Warsaw and they will still not accept the EU regulations that they signed up to.

This whole proceedure has so far taken nearly 5 years and my last option is to sue the Polish government through the European Commission. The Polish judicial courts demand that you reply to the in 7 days, they then take 6-8 months to write back to you. Any judgements they give are not sent to you, you have to send 30PLN to have them forewarded, when/or if you know these judgements have been given.

So, the idea of taking a Polish shop, a plumber, a builder or a car salesman to court would seem to be a waste of time. It would be quicker to get the US army to intervene.

EU regulations and laws only work if the countries that sign up to them, actually enforce them.
In my experience, the uK is the only country, stupid enough to enforce all the EU rules and make everyones life a misery.

Avalon, sorry to hear of your trouble.
I've heard many times that going through the Polish courts is a nightmare (very long winded and often absurd judgements that are contrary to the law).

I've also heard that a lot of people have later indeed gone on to the EC courts and that the Polish government have had to pay compensation for not providing judgements in a reasonable length of time and not adhering to the laws.

But it takes a determined person to go through all the hassle.
My only hope would be that smaller businesses would worry about thier costs if they were threatened with court action.
But in the case of very small businesses they can just disappear (bankruptcy etc.) In fact somewhere on the web theres a nice interpretation of the consumer laws and it warns to only buy from businesses that you believe will still be there for the period of the two years for which you're covered.

Absolutely the situation in the UK is much better. Suppliers there usually give refunds or replacements without any hassle.

So you've spent all this time and effort pursuing something you yourself find to be ridiculous?

Just how is this a constructive use of your time?

Not all regulations of EU apply in the UK,liar.The real sh1t of these regulations comes here to southern Europe.Middle class mafia.My asss.

I never said that the laws were ridiculous. When I lived in the UK, I had to obey and implement many stupid rules and regulations in my business or face large fines for disobeying them. The problem I have illustrated in my post, has become a matter of principle for me. If Poland wants to be an equal partner in the EU then the rules have to apply to all.

I was merely pointing out, that the process of trying to get legal redress in Poland is almost impossible for a foriegner.


I did not state that every single rule had been adopted or accepted, but, the ones that have are rigorously enforced, to such an extent that the newspapers/media, regularly make fun of the fines imposed for breaches of the same.Whereas, in Poland, they either do not know the regulations or they totally ignore them.

Is that clear enough for you, sh1t for brains?

Forget the f*g batteries, forget pencils and fans and cheap clothes. I started this thread so you guys can name and shame those who ripped you off. What crap did you buy, name the shop or shop the person who did the dirty on you. Names and addresses etc. I've been shat on in PL by MANY individuals who assume I have a hundred mansions in the USA and can afford to be ripped off. Quite simply they're jealous, church-going Catholics who steal often (except Sunday when they have to be seen going to communion). Well, that's my personal experience.

Unfortunately, the way the law works in Poland, I would be very wary of leaving myself open to being sued for libel, the Polish courts tend to side with their own first and justice comes a long way second.

About 9 years ago, I went to my local store in Ełk and bought a yoghurt that was past its sell-by date. I still wake up screaming sometimes. I am so grateful I could share this experience with you...

Why did you do that? For a recipe?

No. I only noticed afterwards, you see. Bimber asked for examples of ripping-offing, so there you are. I was actually being rather sarcastic :-/

:-)

Yoghurt should be OK, even a few days late.

When I first came here, several kind people told me to always check the sell-by dates on things, and even now I see people (mostly old ladies) checking very carefully.


One problem with that is that it is potentially libellous.