Is Poland a poor country?

That exact sentence could apply to Poland too, yet you judge Poland in your posts really one-sidedly.

I do not. I am very familiar with Poznan and the surrounding area. Poznan to me is a very attractive city. One criticism I would make is that too much money is spent on new buildings when you have such a wealth of beautiful historic buildings crumbling away. There are lots of things you do around Poznan, that can't in the UK and vice versa. It balances out on the whole. Poland is different in so many ways to England and I know so little about the rest of Poland, I have no right to criticise anything I do not know about or have not seen with my own eyes.

I am fiercely critical of your legal system because my partner who is Polish, is suffering at the hands of its archaic thinking. It needs to change and be on a par with the rest of Europe but it will take time and it needs organisations in Poland to speak out which I know is just starting to happen and as younger judges are coming through with more moderate thinking, change will accelerate.

fair point.
But without coming to some consensus on these two terms, I fail to see how the discussion can continue towards any objective answer.
I for one think defining the word "poor" may be easier than "Poland" but that's just me.

Alright, any proposals?

Thank you:) You're too kind:)


No it's not! When will you grow up and stop bashing Poland? We're all very aware of why you're acting so childish...


Yes. To say that you are biased and critical would be a huge understatement...


Can I? Maybe... Will I? No...


So Age Concern are lying? Those people weren't admitted to hospital? They didn't die? Electricity is cheap and affordable for pensioners?

Rich country my 4SS... Rip-off Britain... welfare Britain... call it want you want but don't say that Britain is in some way superior to Poland because I will just laugh at you:D

I don't see how one average European country with so much poverty can call another European country poor... lmfao:D

On what it means to be poor?
I suppose one aspect of being poor means there is little chance for bettering one's financial situation. I guess being poor would mean being very limited or a lack of upward mobility. Of course there would be more to it than that but first I would want to know if others would agree that this is an aspect of being poor.

Then Poland is poor indeed.
Most Poles don't have too much savings.


Hard to say. It also can raise other questions, like:
1. about the pace of that "move". One generation? Two generation? Three generations?
2. What does that exactly mean? Fair chances in education or maybe how much money one is a able to save from an average salary?

Oh I would say definitely within one's own life span. (average to above average education + average to above average work ethic) x luck =* upward mobility within one's own lifespan.

* should

Opportunity should factor in somewhere as well but I'm a bit rushed at the mo.

Then we have another paradox: Poles were richer on the turn of the 80s/90s. Now it's very hard to have a breakthrough.

I guess that's true but I tend to think what I've written would only be one aspect of what constitutes what it means to be poor.

What I mean is, a decrease in upward mobility could be offset by an increase in stability as well as other things.
I think living in an unstable and/or uncertain situation should account for some aspects of poverty as well...ya feel what I'm sayin?

Then even a worse paradox: Poles were richer under communism! ;)

On a serious note now, of course I got it and the answer is that Poles are poor according to the standards you have provided. There is a little career choice, bad environmen for small business, market is already saturated and no place for new ideas. Young people are badly educated and unprepared for adult life, the elders have their ways and fear of challenges. The salaries are low, and the outlook is generally pesimistic. Huge unemployment, people going into debts, lack of industry which was distroyed in the 90s. It's not 3rd world but looks pretty bleak. However I'm not sure if the grass is greener elsewhere

funny....in a weird sort of way. However rationality would still say that upward mobility was more limited then and so the "poverty" scale would again have to shift, at least in that aspect of its measure.


I wish I didn't agree with you but until I hear/read something compelling that adds up to the contrary, I'm afraid there's no alternative.....well don't we make a cheery duo?

financially yes. An ordinary labourer in a factory was earning the same money as was the manager of that factory :)


I think it's not only us two :)

So then after financial mobility were eliminated, we'd have to see if other forms of "mobility" were or were not available? Social? Cultural? What are your thoughts?

People should read the thread before commenting, there is a lot of repetition on here. I'm not talking about the last few comments.
A lot of concrete apartments are turning 60 years old,hence, would be declared unsafe, in countries that do inspections. So how many Poles live, in what legally may be considered unsafe buildings? 15 million 20 million? People are taking out 35 year mortgages to purchase these concrete"accidents waiting to happen". Only capable of happening in a poor country.

You really do keep changing your tune. I told you this years ago. You said that (in your words) there were millions of properties standing empty, left by the Poles who had gone to work in the West. You stated that there was a massive over-supply of apartments. Now you seem to realise that the current housing stock is old and in dire need of replacement. Who is going to do this Milky? the State? or the investors you hate so much.

Re-read what you wrote in July of 2010, you were wrong then and you are still wrong now.

My grandma had 7 years of pre-war elementary school (aftrewards, at age 14, she needed go to work to support herself and her parents). Her son have an university degree.

Did I? Millions? No way, Ted.


I would imagine nobody. Poland will just sweep the rocks under the carpet, unless there is a domino rally. Gong by how the hosing crises is being dealt with at the moment, I would imagine that the government /Developer bandits will just line their own pockets, in the guise of democratic progress, just like the scam grants, they will get the tax payer to finance vulture capitalist. I can't see Poland coming together to deal with the block crises as they are too obsessed with technologies of distraction, and the money just isn't there to finance the sharks but they(bandits) will make millions in the pretense of patching the holes in the rotten bucket.

Is this supposed to make sense?

Well!! they will squeeze the tax payer. The bandits are making a fortune in Ireland re-buying their properties from NAMA. Does it make sense? No, Just money.


Yea yea yea petrol, house prices, electronics,cars,??? relative me arse
newspaper article (Dec 2012) which roughly stated the following…

After 20 years of paying the minimum social insurance in Poland / the UK:
ZUS in Poland: Pay £180 now & receive £120 pension per month
NI contributions in the UK: Pay £15 now & receive £600 pension per month

I will admit IF your figures are correct, that a pension in Poland is very low.
I have no pension provision whatsoever, because in the past i have never been able to afford it. Most people i know are in the same position, i am far from being an exception.

Really looking forward to my retirement!
Which article were your figures from? I would be interested to read it.

Does anyone know,I have paid Polish Zus for the last twenty years if i go back to the UK as i was born in London can I Claim a UK pension.

Thanks in advance

Interesting.
I am prone to question things, I just can't help myself. One question I have (of many) what the comparative values of those educations are. However, on the face of it, I think I see the point you've made quite clearly.

You would probably have to pay 20 years worth of UK national insurance stamps first.

As Vincent says, you'd need UK stamps for a UK pension, however any shortfall in income that you would suffer by being on a Polish pension would be made up by the minimum income guarantee.

Poland is nearly the poorest EU state
Poland is nearly the poorest EU state (photo Piotr Lewandowski/sxc )
According to the Eurostat data, the position of Poland in the EU is not very good. Our country is wealthier than only 3 states, even though 6 months ago we were wealthier than 4 EU states.

The Eurostat has informed that the level of affluence in Poland, i.e. GDP per capita, taking into account the purchasing power parity, amounted to 64% of the EU average.

According to the data the "Rzeczpospolita" daily got hold of, the situation is worse than in Poland only in Latvia (58%), in Romania (49%) and in Bulgaria (46%), even though 6 months ago we were higher in this rank also than Lithuania. Now, however, Lithuania has got 66% of the average.

Source:
niezalezna.pl

Poland
At €5,756 per inhabitant, Poland is ranked 28th in Europe, just behind the three Baltic countries and slightly ahead of Turkey. Compared with its western neighbors, Poland still lags behind. Even in the affluent capital district of Warsaw the inhabitants' purchasing power of €9,969 p.a. is approximately €5,400 less than that of people in the rural district of Görlitz, the weakest district in Germany.

In general, the study shows a strong polarization in Poland. Purchasing power in the various districts ranges from €3,626 per inhabitant in the Brzozowski district (Powiat) to €9,969 in Warsaw. In 24 districts, purchasing power is at least 20 percent above the national average. At the same time, 71 districts have purchasing power that is 20 percent below the Polish average.

The most affluent districts in Poland are the capital, Warsaw, its surrounding districts (Pruszkowski, Piaseczyński, Warszawski Zachodni and Grodziski), Gdansk and Sopot, Plock (one of the oldest cities in Poland), Lubinski (in Lower Silesia) and Wroclaw (the fourth largest city in Poland). The district of Krakow is only ranked 22nd among the districts. Lodz, the third largest city, is ranked even lower in 32nd place.

In the poorest urban and rural districts, the inhabitants have only slightly more than €3,000 p.a. at their disposal on average. These regions are mainly situated along the Ukrainian border in the far southeast of Poland. The structural problems of this region impact directly on the purchasing power of its inhabitants. Nonetheless, consumers here have more than twice as much at their disposal as their neighbors in Ukraine, the country with the fourth lowest purchasing power in Europe. In these border districts of Poland, purchasing power per inhabitant ranges from €3,600 to €4,200, whereas it is as low as approximately €1,300 per inhabitant in Ukraine.

You have to try and bash Poland, even on Christmas day. You are such a loser...

that's not very good.

Depends what you mean by poor.

If you compare it to a country like Norway, then yeah, it's pretty poor, with an aging infrastructure and with people getting a relatively low income for long hours of work.

If you compare it to a country like Mali or Afghanistan, then Poland's streets are paved with gold, with free healthcare, more than adequate infrastructure and a relative absence of serious starvation, malnutrition or disease.

there is malnutrition among poor children in Poland and there are programmes that address this, if only one parent is working for a minimum wage the situation of a family with children is not to be envied charlie - why do you think young people don't want to have children


natablicy.pl/650-tys-niedozywionych-dzieci-w-polsce,artykul.html?material_id=4deb51a416f1da6537000000

Polish Red Cross data