Who is poor in Poland?

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GdpJJgNV3PA

Maybe if you auctioned off your " 79 " you could relieve world debt. lol

dope, you make so little sense, it's heartbreaking...

ok, so some criminals smuggle cigarettes across the border. make up your mind, is it entrepreneurship or criminal activity? apparently you think it's a great way to make extra money. I think it's criminal at worst, and embarrassing at the very, very generous best.

I'm not looking down on people who try to make extra money, dope. I'm saying that spending all your weekends on a questionable activity for the kind of money that most people would consider quite modest speaks to the fact that Poles are not wealthy, and the situation where you need to be that "enterprising" to get a just little bit of extra disposable income is quite telling about the lack of opportunities of making a comfortable living in Poland. And by comfortable, I mean above satisfying the basic needs of housing, clothing, food, medical care, schooling and transportation.


and how is that relevant?


Yes. so i gather a doctor can't make decent money working at a state hospital or clinic in Poland. The fact that they need to work essentially two jobs actually goes against your point. And it's not that people are "willing" to go to see their doctor in their private practice, it's that they don't have a choice, because it takes weeks or months to see a specialist at a state hospital. So you literally have to be retired or unemployed to spend hours waiting in lines at the state clinic. This is pretty grotesque, and very far from what people would normally consider a comfortable standard of living.

This is because docs want to drive SUVs (like vets do), and a single job only secures a normal BMW.


No way! ;-) The guy on the vid had a "76 Deluxe", WOW. Still, very similar guitars. Mine has the expensive pearl fretboard markers, hmmm, why is his model "Deluxe"?

In my dreams! My single job only secures a pair of sneakers. Conclusion: If Polish people can drive cars they shouldn't complain about being poor!

Poles don't complain. Polacks do.

I do not know your knowledge of PL, so I treat you as a foreigner, based on your above comment. Doctors in PL mostly work for state, the salaries in state hospital are a pittance, in comparison to hospitals in countries, north, west and south west of poland. In order to supplement their income, they work in private hospitals and surgeries to earn extra income. This is the reality.

OK, this is all too much for me, just got back from rehearsal, we need a guitar pûrnography thread, NOW.

I would say, it suggests you should have studied more and entered a different profession. Money problem solved.

Lol, why is the Polish government wanting to change visa requirements to the US? Why are so many people leaving Poland to work say in Germany, UK? Why is the zlote so low? The fact remains Monia and I agree with most you say, is that life in Poland is very difficult for a lot of people, especially the retired and those out of work, sure quality of life is much better but that doesn't help pay the bills.

A lot of new expensive cars in Warsaw are either corporate/hire cars and not owned by the average student/worker.
The US will always be the economic leader in the world, nothing has changed nor will the economic downturn change things.. There has always been the rich/middle class/poor people, interestingly enough the percentage has remained the same.

Sadly in Poland the right to purchase a house has been denied due to costs and low wages for a lot of people.

W-P, maybe not always,but I will agree with you at least for the next 50 years, the USA will lead. The USA just has to get over the hurdle of foreign policy ( world policeman) that it was pushed into by Europe/Japan.

PARDON ME? Have you come here from Outer Space or what? The US dollar is very low against PLN in Poland, again.


Where in the world are the expensive new cars owned by average students/workers? Are you mad?!

Mad, hmm, may be! I come from the planet earth, you must come from Poland. The point being that the Polish currency should be almost on parity with the US dollar. It once hovered around the 2 zl mark.

When you visit the US/GB/Australia you will see what young people/workers are driving.

Antek no need to advertise your ignorance.

lol, all over the place!

who cares about cars? what's the Polish people's obsession about cars? Anyone we meet from Poland always wants to know what cars we have.

A car is not a status symbol anywhere (well, I guess in Poland it is). Our receptionist drives a BMW (and no, she does not have a wealthy husband, or parents, she lives by herself). Our CFO drives an old beat-up chevy, and he's making multiple times what she is. Our landscape guy drives a $60K truck. We bought a brand-new Chrysler right after high-school. Now we have cars that are less flashy but more efficient, even though we could afford something much bigger. How exactly does it matter?

Yeah, and it was 4.50 once. Who's ignorant, baby?

History of PLN/USD

History of NOK/USD, same period. Norway is the most developed world's country. USA are only 9th.

What can you tell by observing these two graphs, wielki pan?


You mean, average students/workers driving SUVs? Who buys inexpensive cars, then?


I have been to both US and UK, not once. Are you trying to tell me anything has missed me?


Study the graphs above. PLN has been on parity with Norwegian Krone all the time, and Norway as I said is 8 positions up over the US ;) Who says the US dollar is strong?


What economic indicator is then essential to you?

This is a classic example of someone that does not understand or follow European currency.On 31 December 1998, the European Central Bank (ECB) fixed the irrevocable exchange rate, effective 1 January 1999, for German mark to euros as DM 1.95583

Today, the Euro/PLN averages at 3.90 - 4.00 PLN to I Euro, so based on wielka - pan post, DM/Euro to PLN has averaged a mean for the last 13 years.

Riiiight. I knew that!

LMAO!!! since when is the model of your car an economic indicator? How about we compare toasters? 'cause I have a pretty nice one, with a setting for large bagels... Our mower is kinda crappy, though, so I hope we're not comparing those...

how about the percentage of income spent on food?
how about the number of dwellings per 1,000 people?
purchasing power parity?
percentage of population living under national poverty line?

Nah, let's just go by the car preferences of vets. Because I would really hate to see your car observations fade into statistical insignificance...

I like statistical insignificance. What can I say? It's not all about you!

Well, yes. See I'm not sure about the UK but in the US there are people from all over the world living here, and yes, there are those who think that a car is an indicator of status. Most of the time, and i mean no disrespect, those are people like you. Poor foreigners or just plain poor. See, Antek, a rich person is somebody who is totally independent, out of reach but at the same time highly influential, a person who can change rules and make up new ones as needed and influence other people to do what they want them to do.

Same logic, a rich country can influence other countries and manipulate the world as the rich people see fit. Poland is neither rich nor influential.

good point IAAME !

Actually, Car sales is a Key Economic indicator.

but not one and only

true. so is the "Lipstick Indicator."

but one, car sales are not intended to tell you anything about the wealth of the population, unlike the PPP, e.g., and two, it has nothing to do with the cost of the cars: a new, top of the line $90K cadillac is counted as one, just like a $12K kia.

what has that got to do with the price of eggs in China, the fact remains that if Poland was such a strong economy, the zote would almost be in parity with the US dollar. The Polish economy has improved somewhat in the last 18 months but please understand this is borrowed money a lot coming from the EU.

No. Still can be quite useful as it's the 2nd biggest purchase, after houses. Shows up a country's more expensive purchasing power by extrapolation. Optimism, is that they buy the cars to get around (keeping busy, spending money). Was especially useful coming out of recession to see who was breaking out first.

But that, Core retail sales, Average Earnings Index, unemployment data(Claimant count) and Purchasing Power(PPI) would settle if the person on the street is wealthier.

But then, I find watching you all post opinions better then watching tv, so don't let this ghost get in your way.


It may be an indicator but not a KEI. I'm not sure how I would profit from having that data.
There is a Big Mac Index that works a bit like PPP.

well, I'm happy to discuss what's key or not, or what's the significance of the car sales, or cemetery plot sales, or mosquito bite indexes, but what does it have to do with the topic?

Some disputants -- instead of discussing "who is poor in Poland" -- were trying to picture Poland as generally a poor country. Some others were trying to say the majority of the Poles were poor people.

To support such views, some realistic economical indicators are needed. Otherwise we are talking about some subjective matters: You, about the landscape guy who drives a $60K car and I about my neighbour the baker who has now ordered covering his whole lot with roll-grass.

Now, speaking of objective indicators and answering this view...


One of such objective indicators could be national gross debt as percentage of Gross Domestic Product. The 2011 forecast for US is 100%, meaning the US live totally on debt. The same forecast for Poland, Czech Republic and Hungary is 29%. Portugal is 97%, Greece is 130%, interestingly Italy is 130% and to give you a good insight, Netherlands and Austria are little above 80%.

Meaning, your (ItsAllAboutMe, wielki pan) "wealth" is a soap bubble, and the indicator also tells us Poland does not live on credit. The nature of a soap bubble is that the cards can be checked easily. This is why the last crisis hardly hit Poland but it hit some of the countries mentioned above.

Now, indicators reading how much people spend on this or that become less important in the light of the fact countries live on credit. Yes, we had one Edward Gierek who made Commie Poland live on credit. Later it meant really hard time for Poland, such as food rationing (Ironside, how old were you at that time?)

Now, wealth distribution. Can anyone present good figures or charts?

Lol, do you thinks the banks are honest... lol The fact is that banks like in the US banks would love to lure anyperson to take out a loan, unfortunately in Poland the wages are so low that even banks don't bother.

Another comment proving how little you know about Poland.
Poles were lured by banks in late 1990's. Suddenly, the crisis of year 2000 occurred and Poles got the bitter lesson that the money don't grow on trees. Since those times, Poles are far more careful with taking credits.

Someone put forward a proposition above that the majority of Warsaw SUVs are bought on credit. Isn't it contradictory with your statement


?
Besides, if you are so stupid to indebt yourself, wielki pan, don't tell me you're rich.


I has a hamburger.

No need for insulting comments Antek, please stick to the facts.. Understand that there is nothing wrong with taking out a loan, thats how people get rich. The question is who can afford a loan???

Please stick to eating hamburgers and lets not talk rubbish.

Lol the Poles use credit cards all the time a nasty disease from the west might I suggust.