Who is poor in Poland?

That has specific reasons; namely the urbanization of those countries. Land is scarce and very expensive. Nations with high rates of home ownership like the US cheat in their statistics, by the way. What they count as a 'home' sometimes, would be called a 'shed' in Switzerland or Germany.

I don`t need to pretend anything and I definitely don`t feel better if someone is worse off . Remember your post # 169 where you named all polish society to be poor . So , I replied to your comment by saying that the poverty exists in USA too , but on a larger scale in my opinion .

Today`s world crisis has been originated in your country by financial institutions who were giving away mortgages to all applicants mostly ineligible and unreliable what subsequently caused many honest people homeless . No one cared for them in such a great country . Instead of such help 700 billions of $ were given away to big corporations which wasted money for their purposes . The price was paid by the poorest Americans .

Poland didn`t suffer anything like that , even if , as you claim , everybody is poor . You are deceived by slogans of some ugly politicians promising you a paradise .

Those great times for USA are, I am afraid, over . So , you have to swallow a bitter pill of truth and don`t criticise and blame the country of your mother and father instead to feel better . We are smart enough to survive . We don`t need to come to America after bread any more ,thanks God .

Don`t measure everybody with the same criteria . Every person is different as I am sure you know that quite well . I feel sorry for your sad experiences with your family . But how can you blame all Polish people for the mistreatement done by your own family members ?

A few weeks ago I was recruting for a job for 2300PLN gross, got almost 200 CVs, most of them from people with university degree, at least a dozen of them were really impressive... I'm not sure what you are trying to prove... That top 5% make quite good money in Poland ? Of course they do (although much less than top 5% in Germany or UK) but society (just like anywhere else) is mostly made of average Joes, who in Poland usually make 1600-2400 PLN a month. They ARE poor.

Things that stand out here.

- By most standards, Polish is poorer than the richest countries of the west.

- By those same standards, Poland is probably richer than most countries in the world.

- There is some real poverty in Poland.

- Most people in Poland are not wanting in terms of meeting basic life needs.

- Living standards are mostly improving in most parts of the country.

- A lot of Polish people who aren't poor by most objective standards still have a subjective feeling of being poor.

- Some people don't want to think of Poland as a poor country.

- Some people really do want to think of Poland as a poor country.

Out of these, the most interesting to me is the last. I'm really wondering about the reasoning of those who insist that most Poles are poor when, by local standards at least, they're not.

Strange thing, today I was waiting for my wife with cat in front of our vet's house (the vet had a SUV). I started counting cars passing by, and it is a minor street. Within 30 minutes not less than 12 SUVs passed by, around 30 brand new Toyota, Volkswagen, Honda, Renault, Mercedes, Audi, BMW etc and only 2 older cars. There were 3 (say: three) pedestrians and 1 (say: one) cyclist over that time. I wonder how about this poverty and how much money is circulating in the "grey zone".

Hmm If somebody was writing here that winters in Poland tend to be very warm, I wouldn't need any agenda to disagree. Poland simply is a poor country.


What do you mean by local standards ?

This is what you Believe.

I'm convinced that if all the money floating about was legalised, we'd see a very sudden jump in average earnings.

For instance, one example that I'm very familiar with - people travelling from Slubice/Kostrzyn nad Odra to Berlin. If five people go, the ticket is about 6 euro each for a day ticket. Cigarettes cost about 2.50 Euro, they can be sold in Berlin for 4 euro a packet - and you can legally take 40 packets across the border. Even assuming the law is kept, they can make a profit of 54 euro in one day. Repeat on Saturday/Sunday, and that's a profit of 110 euro for a weekend. Four weekends, and you've got around 1800zl a month extra in your pocket.

That's not even starting to talk about selling cheap Polish vodka on top. I know a few people who make these runs - and it's quite possible for them to make 200 euro profit in one weekend. When the tax differential was much higher, they were making even more cash by doing this.

Or if you want a splendid example, ask yourself why Medyka is such a beautiful village with beautiful houses and gardens - despite having no industry except a market selling to Ukrainians and a train terminal.

And there are no petrol stations closer to the border in The Eastern Wall, interesting ;-)

A friend reported why a specific brand/model of a car (I don't remember exactly) was so popular there but the reason was it had a 100 litre diesel tank ;-)

Very interesting ;) I seem to recall that the limit is now 600 litres too.


Apparently the same thing is really common in Narva, Estonia.

It's an old article, but - polishmarket.com/60083/Almost-10-of-Poles-employed-in-black-economy.shtml

I know it from myself - I hired someone to paint a few walls. If I didn't want a receipt (I did) - the price was 20% lower.

LOL, dope, are you for real? Are you saying that people in Poland are rich in reality because they can sell cigarettes or vodka to Germans?

Are you seriously not seeing anything wrong with that picture?

Monia, not America as such, although corporate America, is the number one investor in PL.

Business is business, Winnetou ;-)))))


America makes her own business, too. I do not think America is Santa Claus ;-)

A_S - Have you read any of the books by John Perkins ?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Perkins_(author)

Money is money, sunshine.

Then again, it's not like you'd know much about that concept, huh?

(nice of you to reveal your sockpuppet, Havok)

that's what the Indians said about glass beads...

really, it's not business, though. it's a crude means for people to eke out their income by sacrificing weekends and time off from their day jobs, which pay insufficient wages, in order to make ends meet.

if someone didn't know one thing about Poland, and simply assumed it's just a European country of average wealth, this one post would convince them it's not. also the post about whether wealth can measured based on what car you drive. or the contents of your fridge...

That's not the point. The point is they make (at least) 1800 more zloties a month than is counted in any official statistics. I've known more than one 'unemployed' person who made more than the national wage off the books. Official statistics just don't give a very good picture of the real numbers.

you need to make the correction for any country, unreported income is not a Polish invention.

I think its quite enterprising, you supplement your income without having to rely on government handouts, one thing I can say about Polish people, many of them will do their day job and have a sideline to make money. Doctors are a prime example of this in Poland. Also the lecture circuit is booming in PL.

Nay, warsz, I prefer books by Terry Pratchett and Neal Stephenson ;-)

Seriously, I know what you are aiming at, and I think it is another conspiracy theory believer.
Do you know that bit on Winnetou (an American Indian, a hero of Karl May novels)?

In Soviet Union, a schoolboy is being asked by a teacher who was the greatest benefactor of the mankind and promises top mark for the right answer. The boy answers: "It was Lenin!" and he gets the top grade. Sitting down, he mumbles to himself: "Sorry, Winnetou, but business is business" :-)

how about having a job that pays decent money so you don't have to sacrifice 8 days a month to make an extra $650?

Not sure what side businesses doctors in Poland tend to have... Not sure if I want to know, either.

You can't tell me or any reasonable person that wasting 8 days on a pretty embarrassing activity for $650 is worth it, unless you're really desperate.

Fantasy and fiction, as they say there is always an element of fact in fiction and truth in humor...


In their spare hours when not working for the state, they practice in private surgery. There are plenty of people in poland that do not want to go to state hospitals and are willing to pay a premium.

You don't have to, but it's a good way to make extra money. The fact that you're actually looking down on people for earning extra money says a lot about you as a person.


You're not sure because you're not actually Polish.


Look at you, all high and mighty from your American pedestal.

Who the hell are you to judge, anyway?

heartland.org/article/29075/Study_High_Cigarette_Taxes_Cause_Widespread_Smuggling.html

Looks like your homeland isn't so squeaky clean when it comes to smuggled cigarettes, too.

Our vet drives a SUV. Ah, vets are private animal doctors, I've almost forgotten ;-)


That would be my family.


I reckon you're an American?

I don't know, but I'll be poor in Poland!

Don't bet your, Asia Fender Stratocaster, on it. I am a subject.

I would never bet my Japanese '79 Pearl Custom Export on anything! ;-) Talking on Polish "poverty" of course, and staying on topic.

I don't really care what you're afraid of. It's my home so I'm staying here either way Princes. I have nowhere else to go and i would not fit in with bunch of you backwards Polish Polacks.

I'm not blaming anybody, all I'm saying is that in spite of all EU's desperate efforts, Poland is still a poor country and nothing is going to change there because majority of the Polish are whacked in the head, and oblivious, like you are.

Interesting combination. I always though Polacks could only live abroad but could be wrong, ofc.

I don't recall anyone ever making this distinction here, to them we're all Polacks in Poland or not.