Who is poor in Poland?

Move there, Europe is open.

What is this based on? I've spent some time in Hungarian and living standards are not higher than in Poland. And Hungarian society is a lot more stratified than Poland with a small elite and larger have not class (not to mention gypsies). And Hungary had the misfortune of the disastrous socialist Gyurcsany government that devestated the economy.

Every year in the early 2000's I spent a couple of weeks in Hungary but had a break between 2005 and 2008, in 2008 the country seemed to have gone backwards economically. This year things seem to (maybe) making a modest upswing. Differences in lifestyle make direct comparisons difficult but I wouldn't say Hungary is better off than Poland (Czech republic probably yes).

Seems to me Antek that you have a attitude problem,like a chip on your shoulder, I admire you for being a firm supporter of Poland, peoples opinion on issues under discussion vary and no person is trying to be anti Poland, suggest you have a cold shower before you post.

The point I'm making, wielki pan, some people make many statements not having any practical experience in what they are talking about, get me now? My Honorable Preceeding Speaker said -- without any proof or experience -- that Czech Republic or Hungary were doing better than Poland. I've just suggested he practically proved and tried the truth of his information. Because I have probably been 150 times in Hungary and Czech Republic over last 20 years and basically know the reality of life. He does not.

I personally knew a Hungarian man -- I had known him for many years and once he drove me from Brno to Budapest when I was very ill -- who committed suicide by jumping from the high-tower when the last crisis began. And I know those Balaton areas where most of houses are for sale.

From what I've seen, the Czech Republic is no better than Poland. Anyone who's crossed the border at Kudowa-Slone/Nachod will know what I mean.

Opinions of few peeps both Poles, Czech and one Hungarian as I was there only a few months all together.

Using a Hungarian suicide as evidence for a poor Hungarian economy is rather misleading because Hungarians are renown the world over as being the most suicidal of nations.

bad influence you have on peeps mister ...

That's right, DE, although I had known Istvan for 14 years and he always looked a happy person to me.
Visiting Balaton for wine in April this year, I could not help seeing most of houses there marked "FOR SALE" in Hungarian - Eladó. I know that a big number of people there had speculated in the real estate market and failed when the crisis began. yes, Budapest is lovely, yet Budapest does not make Hungary.

Havok, what year was your photo taken?

Antek, I think you are all over the place in your arguments, firstly a lot of people in other countries took their own life as a result of the economic downturn what has this got to do with Hungary being poor, you say Poland survived the economic crisis ... so what... the banks didn't lend money full stop. There are rich people in Hungary as there are poor, more than likely the same percentage as in Poland.

Try saying that the West was a lot richer and Poland is catching up. The amount of debt owed by the average UK, American family, be it personal debt or debt that has been placed on them by bad government fiscal policies is astronomical. We are looking at least at a couple of generations (maybe more in the USA) who will suffer with cuts in services, high unemployment and higher taxes which will rapidly erode their standard of living.

I cannot speak from experience about the USA, although I have been there many times, I was never exposed to the "poor areas". The UK has the buffer of a generous social system and free medical care but I wonder how much longer this will be the case as it is becoming ever more unaffordable and the present government is looking at ways to drastically reduce the costs by capping housing benefit, child benefit and forcing the long term sick/unemployed back into work.

The rising cost of health and the increase in the life exectancy of a growing population of the elderly will see a huge strain on the money available for aftercare and pensions.

So however bad you think it is in Poland at the moment, you have read or should have access to the information regarding the financial situation of the so called, rich countries.

I personally do not think that being in any kind of debt is being rich. Some will argue that having a mortgage is being in debt, but, if the amount you pay monthly is approximately the same as what you would spend on rent then you have to take a long term view.

By my understanding many Hungarian people took loans to buy real estate in hope for growth in the value of houses. With the crisis, the value of real estate fell down well below the purchase cost; this made people unable to pay the interest rate, making them effectively bankrupt.

On side note, I'm shocked with Havok being so young; I regarded him as a greybeard, rambling his frustration out. So pity that so young and handsome man behaves as aged grumbler so early.

Well, I like to keep things organized. PF happens to be this place where I unload all my frustrations, for now that is. I do have an issue with lots of unspent rage and energy that needs to be constantly managed. So I go to gym, swim and run, get on PF and write some outraging stuff, (by your standards of course), get drunk and do crazy stuff and then it feels all good again. This process allows me to be nicer to people at work and others in my personal life that I care about. You know, I don't think I was made for a desk job. Anyway, personally I think you have far more issues than I do.

There is also this other thing.

People in Poland lead very sheltered lives and many of them have limited access to life enriching experiences. So, yes maybe I'm young but I have experienced far more in my short life than you did in your long and boring one, which maybe a blessing or a curse, depending on how you look at it.

This is yet another reason why I think people in PL are poor. An average person there rarely experiences anything exciting in their life.

I found this hilarious post and i would like to share it with you.

"What ARE Polish people like? Part I

September 1, 2007 by island1

When you first meet Polish people in Poland, one of the first questions they always ask you is 'So, what do you think of Polish people?' or 'So, what do you think of Poland' I'm not saying they introduce themselves with these words, but I would bet money that it will come up within the first five minutes of conversation. It's almost like they're wondering if you would like to buy the place. I've known lots of British and American people who have lived in Poland for long or short periods and this always comes up. 'Why do they keep asking what we think of them?'

Here is one of the responses"

" by Wolverine

I read your post and it's really interesting. I'm a Polish, so I might have some insight about your thoughtful post. You're wondering why do we keep asking those questions and what's so different about us that is hard to grasp at the first time. It's really complicated and connected to our complex history, educational system, possibly also the "Polish soul" and nevertheless strong identification with our country.

Great post. Thank you."
Source: batorego.wordpress.com/2007/09/01/what-are-polish-people-like-part-i/

Is it not normal to ask people what they think of your country. I know we always ask this question in Eire. I know a lot of Polish were offended back in 2004-5 when they asked Irish people what they thought of the them as a people. The answer was usually blank and if there was an answer, it was usually," is that the country Hitler invaded and started the war". The average person in Ireland knows nothing about Poland except maybe the Pope came from there; friends of mine were amazed when they heard that there were summers in Poland, they thought it had an eternal winter and everybody wore fur hats and coats all the time.

Even Mołosz(the writer) in Captive Mind speaks about Americans and how they can only name the core states of western Europe and when it goes East , it all become a blurr, and he was talking about pre WW2 Europe.

If someone ask you what you think of their country,for me it's a normal question but the Poles sometimes do have a major inferiority complex,sometime expressed through Slavic nationalism and other phony belief systems, beware of these people, they want to kick the **** out of your western arse.

And ... so what ?

Speak for yourself and don`t cite anybody`s comments here , beacause my comment varies a lot form this guy called Volverine who reveals such a deep wisdom of a frustrated loser .

Do you remember that 1989 Bydgoszcz movie, milky? You said the cars looked mostly the same in 1989 as they look now in Poland. It's not important I do not agree with you. Important is, you have missed something very interesting in that movie: EVERYONE was carrying a plastic bag in their hands. Nowadays, most of people walk with empty hands. Have you noticed that? Any conclusions?

Mark will no doubt conclude that nowadays nobody has any money to buy anything and so they are forced to walk with empty hands.

Because now it's unecological to carry plastic bags?

No. In the olden days, it was very hard to buy anything, from toilet paper to sugar to meat to light bulbs. There were few cars, too. You never "bought" things, you were "managing" (or even more precise word: "conquering") things. Therefore everybody had to be prepared for the rare miracle of event "the authorities have just thrown some goods to the shop" (władze rzuciły towar do sklepu) , and people were carrying bags in hope of such event. More: They were also using small trolley-bags for the same reason. "Kochanie, zdobyłem żarówki!" (Sweethart, I've conquered some light-bulbs!) a proud warrior used to declare to his beloved one.

Nowadays, you buy when you need, so why should you carry a bag with you all day long? Young people carry backpacks but not for any goods to be by miracle found in a store. Many people do shopping using their car. Why should people carry bags then?

I thought there were no plastic bags in the 80s...

On contrary. The words such as "reklamówka" or "anużka" (A nuż coś rzucą?) date from that era. Before that "siatkas" (net-bags) were in use.

Quite advanced and ecological, later Poland reverted to sh!ty plastic bags. And almost all changes were managed in this manner.

The most ecological would be going back to caves, resigning from washing powder, running water, heating, electricity, and PCs in the first place don't you think so.

Yes, I know an extreme family, ecologists, leftists and anarchists. They live in the countryside. She gives each family member a glass of water daily for washing. She crops her dogs every spring and makes wool clothes for the family. On the nuclear accident in Japan, "Mother Earth cried", she wrote. She can strike the flint and make bonfire. Yet, she cannot resign from using the PC, and PCs are electrically powered, and electricity here is made of coal, and this makes Mother Earth choke. When I wrote the latter to her, she threw me out her Friend List on Facebook ;)))))))))))))))

from a dogs hair?

Of course she could just put the family sewage into a biogas generator and use the gas from that to fuel a small electricity generator.

Of course she could, yet, the generator (and the PC!) would be made by a factory, and well you know, the factory... ;)

I wanted to keep her as an exhibit but she lost her patience ;) Her husband (a quite well known horn/saxophone player) is even worse: He was telling everybody how fantastic and rich Libya was, and he knew it since he could speak Arabic and watch Al-Jazeera ;)

Ah, to make the story complete: I had been called by them a bourgeois even if I live in the forest and keep a kind of National Park here ;)


Precisely of the dogs' hair.

May I ask what breed are they?

Monia, go to that blog and read the whole thing. Wolverine wrote exactly what I was saying earlier. I find it funny that other Polish "jumped him" the same way you guys did. Poland is a homogenous country and you're very predictable.

That is who? Only Monia "jumped him". I found his discription strangely similar to your view of Poland, as you've just acknoledged here:


that's why I jokingly asked if you had written it yourself... :)

Sorry I misunderstood you.