Who is poor in Poland?

Havok, if someone here is not poor, he does not have problems to tell you this either. Then you calling it "showing off".

Do you now understand how hypocrite you are?


I want you to get some work and stop whining ;-)
Or you'll end up like that old sailor ;-)
nk.art.pl/mp3/nk_17.mp3

yes!

ok, maybe I can explain it on a different level, and hear me out, Maarysia, because I'm NOT trying to put anyone down, this is as honest piece of well-meant advice as it gets.

I work with a guy whose mother is from South East Asia, father from the US, the guy was born here. His mother had never left her home country, very backwards, low standards of living by American standards, until she met her future husband and she came to the US. A lot of things seemed silly, naive, so very different than what she was used to, people had different habits, different manners, they'd smile even though they didn't know her, they came from different walks of life, they'd all have different opinions, they'd argue about things she had no idea about or didn't think they'd matter to anyone. It was all extremely confusing at first, she had no higher education, no idea about business, no experience with anything other than running a household, didn't know how to find a job, how to adapt to people's expectations, pure craziness. Her husband was very patient, though, and he'd explain things, one by one, he'd let her meet different people, hear different opinions, get a driver's license, get a job, figure out for herself what life in America is about.

Well, a decade later or so, her husband died, and she took the kid (the guy I now work with) back to Asia, and she started her own business, based on what she learned in America. In her own words, going to America was the closest thing to having a crystal ball, if you keep an open mind, because what people in the US took as a matter of course about running a business, in her old country was new, unheard of, almost ridiculous to her old friends and neighbors, but it was extremely successful. It was like going back from the future and taking with you all the information about what's going to happen.

So, the guy came back to the US to go to college, he married an American and stayed here, but his mother is still over there, making more money a year than both of her parents made in their whole life.

It's a true story.

See, Poland is like the country that stayed back in time. It's moving forward, but it's not where other countries are today, including the US. So what Havoc and others are saying, instead of

snickering and arguing, and shutting off everything that doesn't conform to the Polish way of life, perhaps it would make more sense to see what more successful people in more advanced countries are doing, and try to do the same. Think about it, what people considered normal in the West 20 years ago was pure crazy talk in Poland. Now the stuff is beginning to be the norm in Poland. But if you looked at the West twenty years ago and tried to do the same, people would obviously call you nuts back then, but you'd be twenty years ahead of time in Poland, and now that the majority of people are just getting used to it, you'd be successfully on the top of the game!

You're taking what Havoc says too literally, it's not about you joining the Navy, silly, it's about knowing what you want to accomplish, being smart, and keeping an open mind, even if it means throwing away the beliefs you held your whole life.

Antek come on, you posted a picture of your refrigerator with food in it. LMAO

Great points there, Its. Poland needs benchmarks/yardsticks. Some are aware of the concept of milestones in projects but they don't have an American's sense of urgency or what needs to be done. Without that know-how through having worked in that environment, you will face an uphill battle of operating within the constraints that you know. Don't break outwith the mould and you will never know how life can be when done differently.

I think you completely misunderstood that political poster. I cannot help your narrow-mindedness and poor sense of humour.


Right. There was hardly any crisis in Poland recently.

a political poster? lol, you should have taken a picture of shelves in a store not your refrigerator dummy. I remember vinegar was popular back then. Are you trying to teach me something Antek?

Yes, Havok, some people cannot help for what they were born, although some education never harms.

Have you ever been to a zoo in Warsaw? Do know if they keep kangaroos there? Are they poor too? They're Polish now, right? Go help them Harry.


I know, so get to it and stop posting pictures of your refrigerator, it's not impressive by any norms.

Why do you adress it to me. I barely take part in this discussion and you don't know what is my stance on this particular matter.


You're patronizing. The problem is that you don't know Poland and your husband has some issues with self-identity so his description of Poland is exaggerated, biased with his own complexes and generally baselessly dismalling. Society is not a homogenius group of people - there are some successful people and those who are not successful, certainly you don't have to teach Polish people how to live.


Oh really? No sh*t!

Maaarysia has a fair point too. She is a balanced poster and I applaud her for that. Poor is a relative concept but I fear that some settle for it given relative standards. However, they adjust and get on with it. Those in places like Rostocza are happy just to make egg sales and live off of the proceeds of sale. My wife was there and she couldn't believe the conditions they lived in. She is from Zabrze which is hardly the centre of wealth either but it's all a question of relative scale. Poles are not homogeneous (not to the level that they think) and I'd only hope that they help out their fellow Poles by not being snobbish and acknowledging the role of poorer people in the economy too. People have a role and bank balances are FAR from being the be all and end all of things.

99% of Poland is occupied by Polish, 99% them went to the same public schools, with exactly the same programs, were subjugated to the same living conditions, norms etc etc. It's a homogenous society. Just to let you know I have no self-identity issues but I do have complexes though. I'm ashamed of dumb Polish people.

Sensible comment. I agree.

Indeed, Yes, I agree as well. You're poor in comparison with Germany but rich when comparing with Ukraine. Go get'em Poles!

No it's not. For instance I feel I came from completely different background than you.

no

sean they do not care, all they care bout is


, and it comes not from some blocks from a gutter but those in charge in key's positions.


I'm on PF for about two years - you have no idea what you are talking about. You are just an old gype who made some money and you think it makes you wise. What make you think that I don't have a job - nothing - What you doing here is just showing off.


Not really.I'm it is not aboutknow how, it is about post-colonial syndrome and the fact that Polish elite had been almost extinguished.
Those who are in charge have no interest in changing anything because thanks to their slimy and dark ways there are where they are - if you follow me.?


He has written here a lot of rubbish to be taken seriously out of the sudden.

You grew up until the age of 15/16.

We can all be ashamed of dumb ( stupid ) people, where ever we come from. English, German, American etc.
Thats life the world over. I understand it,s annoying because it riles me too, but you just have to take it in your stride and let them get on with it. After all, you can,t educate pork. They have to learn some way, even if it,s the hard way.

I-S, as always, we have different Poles in mind and it all depends who we are talking about. It's as simple as that!

Please do not use derogatory language towards other PF users. I think I have seen it somewhere.
I think you are under 25 and you have poorly paid work if any. Otherwise you would not be so negative regarding the Polish reality.

Well, at least you get the money from the EU. Better than empty-handed. The question I would ask is: would Poland be better off without a membership? I seriously doubt that, because without being a member of the EU those millions of Polish citizens I've mentioned in my previous post would most likely not be allowed to work in Britain, Germany and elsewhere in Europe. Major problem.

Poland depends on foreign investments because in the days of globalization no country can survive on its own anymore. Actually, the more globalization progresses, the more competition there will be amongst nations for investments and jobs. In the end, this process will drive down wages significantly and multinational corporations will only spend their cash in places where laws and costs are favourable for them (i.e., no protection for employees, low wages, no benefits...). Not something I'm looking forward to.

good point Ironside,its so annoying when pricks like that, throw that kind of sh1t at you. Reminds me of when our scumbag former leader had this to say to us, when we complained:

youtube.com/watch?v=zFBfkusf8R0
youtube.com/watch?v=hfjGSfuSQpA


exactly

I don't think Antek is showing off Ironside, I will explain as I know Polish reality, even though I am not Polish. Firstly a generation separates you and Antek, when Antek was close to your age, Poland entered a period of real opportunity, in the early 90's you did not have to be educated, you just had to have practical knowledge ( savvy) of how things worked. People who are now in the age group of 40-60 in Poland, had an opportunity, that your generation will never have. Some people were smart enough to see what was going on and be part of it, others did not have a clue what was going and lost out. I have read some of your comments before Ironside, and unfortunately you are one of these people that believe you have to be a former communist to have made it. There are many Polish people out there like Antek, who is not what I would call wealthy, although he has a comfortable lifestyle, because he was born at the right time and was savvy enough to see opportunity and grab it with both hands.

WhatIsItAllAboutYou ?

What country were you educated in ?
For me, you are simply illiterate person by polish standards of education. You don`t understand simple historical fact and thats why you don`t realise that Poland was in totally different world through subsequent 50 years after the WWII ended , than those Asian countries you are trying to compare Poland with .

How can you even compare Poland to them or on the other hand to USA . Was USA a commie country or did USA lost more than 20 % of its population during the WWII , was USA devastated in 68 % of its total capital including railways , bridges, roads , enterprises and houses . Was the biggest city in USA levelled to the ground in 90% .

USA was once attacked and the two buildings collapsed and some 3500 people died ( that was the biggest devastation done on USA territory as far as my memory serves me well).

You should buy some historical books to get a real picture of Poland`s past about recent war and about communism which was implemented immediately after the war ended. A ruined country couldn`t develop properly with communist economy and also being a slave to Soviet Union. How can you compare Poland to the rest of EU like eg. France with its puppet government untouched by the war and then with all chances to develop without communism . That was a big scheme to let Poland be endeavoured by Soviets after post Jalta Treaty new world order with a major help of Churchill and Roosevelt not for any other reasons, but to save the Western Europe from communism . In other way Soviets would march and free all Europe and implement Communism all over from Spain and Italy to UK and Sweden . The leftist parties were sponsored throughout a cold war by Soviets in many European countries . Italy in the 50-ies was very close to become a commie country . The rest read from books , coz I am not going to give you here a lecture about those times .

You should also read some books about communist economy to get an idea , some polish made movies from that era might help and explain how cruel and ridicule times we have gone through.

You are talking nonsense. Look at the yellow investment signs all over Poland, and see how much of the project cost is covered by EU funds.

I would say it's a lot higher than this!

Look at the name and the former profession of her husband and that becomes pretty obvious!

Poland could do well on her own, thank you.


Ah but I think he does.


Not necessarily I would say that there of those that made it ( I'm mean really made it) 1 in 5 is not a former communist or their family member.

Anyway, that is not a point I'm trying to make here, my point is that it really doesn't matter who made it and why while conditions in Poland are such as to prevent a middle class from emerging.

On the other hand Antek is trying to sell here that in Poland there no poor people and if they are they can blame themselves only.

I have seen too many imbeciles promoted due to their connections and fine people working their asses off to take that BS seriously.


It well may be, but I still remember 1989, and he is all about himself that why he keep fishing for personal reasons of my views. Furthermore he isn't really aware what going in Poland.

Monia, Antek, can you answer my post #398, page 14 ? Just to make it clear what you mean.

Of course you can sell yourself to the rednecks, but will they pay you handsomely for that? You still would be at the mercy of some US bureaucrat who could do you the favor of giving you a visa. For what?

There is not anymore "on her own" these days. There is no going back to the days of liberum veto.
Maybe you have not noticed it, but Poland is a part of Europe.