I've read this forum for quite a while, but I have not bothered to reply to most things. I see it can be quite tribal. What I notice first and foremost is that, many posters here seem to be very sensitive to criticism of Poland. Also, they tend to be Polish ex-pats rather than Polish people living here in Poland.
I thought I would offer some of my own thoughts about life in Poland.
I've lived here for two years, and to be honest, I do not like it. "Good, go home." Yes, I've already anticipated the responses. Let me say first, that I think Poland is a beautiful country. Stunning. Polish people are warm and hospitable and the premium Polish people place on family life is both admirable and a lesson to 'western' societies. Were these the only things important in life, Poland would be a paradise. They aren't. It's not. And I think Poland is a country with serious problems.
First and foremost, I often hear about just how materialistic and greedy western people are, particularly people from the US or UK. Pot. Kettle. Black. I have never seen such a materialistic society in my life. Whilst I understand that there are historical and sociological reasons for this, and that most former communist countries suffer from the 'starved man at the banquet' syndrome, it does not change facts. Poland is one of the most materialistic societies I have encountered. Far more so than any other 'western' country. Deny it all you like, but it is true.
Prices are next. 'Western' brands are treated as premium products and prices inflated accordingly, although there is often no other choice. Let's take cosmetics - any aftershave, perfume, face cream etc and you can comfortably double what you would expect to pay in western Europe. Razor blades?! Jesus. Electronics? Well, we'll add another 20 - 50% at least. High street brands? It varies, but certainly Diesel jeans are at least twice as expensive, Levis too. Benetton, Esprit, Mothercare etc all far more expensive than elsewhere. I often here about how prices are much lower in Poland than in other countries, and for certain products such as food, transport etc it is true - in absolute terms. In relative terms, they are as expensive, if not more so than in other countries. Check any economic data set from the ONS, US state department or academic research and you will discover that comparing prices to wages, Poland is one of the most expensive countries to live in in Europe. In western Europe and the US it takes the average person between 10 - 15 hours of work to buy an iPod, in Warsaw it takes 45.
Which brings me to my next point. Wages. Stupidly low. The average wage is 3200 zl per month (2009 Polish government statistics) now this is the average of everyone in the country, from the very highest earners to the lowest. Anecdotally, most people seem to earn around 1500 - 2000 per month. Starting a career is a joke: "So we really like you, what's the lowest you're prepared to work for?" A friend who could not find work as a Child Psychologist went for a job in an office, she'd had some office experience and just needed a source of income. She was told afterwards that she had priced herself out of the job by saying she was not prepared to work for less than 1200 zl per month. It seems counter productive, apart from highly specialised work, such as IT, Law or Engineering, where you studied does not seem to matter, how low you'll work for is all that counts. How is this going to improve things? Surely companies want to attract the best and brightest, not the cheapest? Let's not even talk about contracts some women are made to sign promising not to get pregnant for a pre-determined period. Worker's protection is farcical. It's not only ordinary workers, even highly trained workers are expected to work for next to nothing. My girlfriend's dad is director of a neurology department in a hospital. His remuneration? 5000 zl a month. Were it not for private sector work he would not be able to afford to live.
Problem four. Taxes / Health system. ZUS and taxes are so high it is untrue. Again, look at taxes as a percentage of gross income in any of the aforementioned economic data sets and you'll discover that Polish people pay proportionally more tax than people in Scandinavia. And what do you get? Nothing. The government spend approximately 4% of GDP on the health system, which happens to be one of the lowest rates in Europe and the developed world. Small wonder the NFZ is crumbling. I am sick of hearing about how bad the NHS is, or how expensive the US healthcare system is. In terms of public health, mental health, cleanliness, equipment and expertise, they are streets ahead of the NFZ. You get sick in most European countries and you need medicine then you'll pay a one off price for your drugs. In Britain, aspirin, NRT or drugs for cancer all cost the same. Yet in Poland, one cannot say that. In fact, Poland has the 3rd largest pharmaceutical market in Europe and the lowest health expenditure. This surely hints at a private sector in dire need of regulation. Either that, or a population of hypochondriacs. I am 100% sure that it's the former rather than the latter. Certainly, if I have kids I would not want them to be seriously ill in this country. Roads and other public services are a joke. Where does all the tax go? What do people get for it? I read a recent article in Gazetta Wyborcza that said that roads in Afghanistan and Iraq were better than Polish roads.
Society. I have never seen such endemic racism and homophobia in a society. There are obviously problems in other countries, no country has an unblemished record in these areas, but they try and massive strides have been taken to ensure progress. Only this year, the Supreme Court ruled that they could not say homosexuality was not a disease until medical tests had been carried out. A lesbian friend is banned from seeing her mother, until she goes to a church camp to 'cure' her. Obviously this could be an isolated incident, but I doubt it. Racism and Anti-Semitism are both appallingly embraced. Just speak about race for a few minutes, even to an educated person and you're bound to hear some derisory comment about N*****s or 'czarnuch', gypsies or Jews. Jedwabne anyone?? There is also a class system, as elitist as anything in operation in Britain, America or Western Europe. So many times I have heard about "stupid people living in the village".
These are my thoughts. I know that there are reasons why all these things occur in Poland. We can explain them politically, economically and sociologically. It doesn't make them acceptable. It's why I don't like Poland. It's why so many Polish people move to other countries. My girlfriend studied at the Jagiellonian University, widely acknowledged as the best in Poland. About 90% of her former friends, classmates etc have left Poland. Graduates from top universities should be shaping the country, shaping its work-force, joining the government and the civil service. This could be such a wonderful country, but there are massive problems. People say things are getting better, but the wealth differential is getting worse every day. The Kraków tolerance march was threatened and intimidated once again this year, I'm sure it happened elsewhere. I think instead of attacking other societies and cultures, Polish people should have a long, hard look at their own. Now. This isn't the time for talking about the Liberal Constitution or Golden Freedom, it is about the here and now.
Now, I expect to be slated...
I thought I would offer some of my own thoughts about life in Poland.
I've lived here for two years, and to be honest, I do not like it. "Good, go home." Yes, I've already anticipated the responses. Let me say first, that I think Poland is a beautiful country. Stunning. Polish people are warm and hospitable and the premium Polish people place on family life is both admirable and a lesson to 'western' societies. Were these the only things important in life, Poland would be a paradise. They aren't. It's not. And I think Poland is a country with serious problems.
First and foremost, I often hear about just how materialistic and greedy western people are, particularly people from the US or UK. Pot. Kettle. Black. I have never seen such a materialistic society in my life. Whilst I understand that there are historical and sociological reasons for this, and that most former communist countries suffer from the 'starved man at the banquet' syndrome, it does not change facts. Poland is one of the most materialistic societies I have encountered. Far more so than any other 'western' country. Deny it all you like, but it is true.
Prices are next. 'Western' brands are treated as premium products and prices inflated accordingly, although there is often no other choice. Let's take cosmetics - any aftershave, perfume, face cream etc and you can comfortably double what you would expect to pay in western Europe. Razor blades?! Jesus. Electronics? Well, we'll add another 20 - 50% at least. High street brands? It varies, but certainly Diesel jeans are at least twice as expensive, Levis too. Benetton, Esprit, Mothercare etc all far more expensive than elsewhere. I often here about how prices are much lower in Poland than in other countries, and for certain products such as food, transport etc it is true - in absolute terms. In relative terms, they are as expensive, if not more so than in other countries. Check any economic data set from the ONS, US state department or academic research and you will discover that comparing prices to wages, Poland is one of the most expensive countries to live in in Europe. In western Europe and the US it takes the average person between 10 - 15 hours of work to buy an iPod, in Warsaw it takes 45.
Which brings me to my next point. Wages. Stupidly low. The average wage is 3200 zl per month (2009 Polish government statistics) now this is the average of everyone in the country, from the very highest earners to the lowest. Anecdotally, most people seem to earn around 1500 - 2000 per month. Starting a career is a joke: "So we really like you, what's the lowest you're prepared to work for?" A friend who could not find work as a Child Psychologist went for a job in an office, she'd had some office experience and just needed a source of income. She was told afterwards that she had priced herself out of the job by saying she was not prepared to work for less than 1200 zl per month. It seems counter productive, apart from highly specialised work, such as IT, Law or Engineering, where you studied does not seem to matter, how low you'll work for is all that counts. How is this going to improve things? Surely companies want to attract the best and brightest, not the cheapest? Let's not even talk about contracts some women are made to sign promising not to get pregnant for a pre-determined period. Worker's protection is farcical. It's not only ordinary workers, even highly trained workers are expected to work for next to nothing. My girlfriend's dad is director of a neurology department in a hospital. His remuneration? 5000 zl a month. Were it not for private sector work he would not be able to afford to live.
Problem four. Taxes / Health system. ZUS and taxes are so high it is untrue. Again, look at taxes as a percentage of gross income in any of the aforementioned economic data sets and you'll discover that Polish people pay proportionally more tax than people in Scandinavia. And what do you get? Nothing. The government spend approximately 4% of GDP on the health system, which happens to be one of the lowest rates in Europe and the developed world. Small wonder the NFZ is crumbling. I am sick of hearing about how bad the NHS is, or how expensive the US healthcare system is. In terms of public health, mental health, cleanliness, equipment and expertise, they are streets ahead of the NFZ. You get sick in most European countries and you need medicine then you'll pay a one off price for your drugs. In Britain, aspirin, NRT or drugs for cancer all cost the same. Yet in Poland, one cannot say that. In fact, Poland has the 3rd largest pharmaceutical market in Europe and the lowest health expenditure. This surely hints at a private sector in dire need of regulation. Either that, or a population of hypochondriacs. I am 100% sure that it's the former rather than the latter. Certainly, if I have kids I would not want them to be seriously ill in this country. Roads and other public services are a joke. Where does all the tax go? What do people get for it? I read a recent article in Gazetta Wyborcza that said that roads in Afghanistan and Iraq were better than Polish roads.
Society. I have never seen such endemic racism and homophobia in a society. There are obviously problems in other countries, no country has an unblemished record in these areas, but they try and massive strides have been taken to ensure progress. Only this year, the Supreme Court ruled that they could not say homosexuality was not a disease until medical tests had been carried out. A lesbian friend is banned from seeing her mother, until she goes to a church camp to 'cure' her. Obviously this could be an isolated incident, but I doubt it. Racism and Anti-Semitism are both appallingly embraced. Just speak about race for a few minutes, even to an educated person and you're bound to hear some derisory comment about N*****s or 'czarnuch', gypsies or Jews. Jedwabne anyone?? There is also a class system, as elitist as anything in operation in Britain, America or Western Europe. So many times I have heard about "stupid people living in the village".
These are my thoughts. I know that there are reasons why all these things occur in Poland. We can explain them politically, economically and sociologically. It doesn't make them acceptable. It's why I don't like Poland. It's why so many Polish people move to other countries. My girlfriend studied at the Jagiellonian University, widely acknowledged as the best in Poland. About 90% of her former friends, classmates etc have left Poland. Graduates from top universities should be shaping the country, shaping its work-force, joining the government and the civil service. This could be such a wonderful country, but there are massive problems. People say things are getting better, but the wealth differential is getting worse every day. The Kraków tolerance march was threatened and intimidated once again this year, I'm sure it happened elsewhere. I think instead of attacking other societies and cultures, Polish people should have a long, hard look at their own. Now. This isn't the time for talking about the Liberal Constitution or Golden Freedom, it is about the here and now.
Now, I expect to be slated...