Poland after one year of living here

Yep, much common ground there.


That is actually very perceptive.

...gleaned only after years of having lived abroad aka outside of the States and having observed some key differences between Continentals and Anglos:-)

Being brought up in the US with "It's a small world after all...and a smile means friendship to everyone....", I realized while only out of my teens, that this is simply NOT so; it's a Disney-set pipe dream, an illusion, a myth!

When I finally arrived in Poland, I was forewarned, thus, forearmed, and therefore, not a victim of culture shock, as I understood the culture into which I was entering (armed with an imperfect command of Polish, no less).

It's clear the OP is pretty unhappy here and I can sympathize to some extent. When living in a different country the collective downs tend to gather and the person either learns how to dispell them or gives up and moves away (or simply sinks into depression).

Not knowing the town he's living in I can't offer specifics but some generalities.

- No. They don't hate you, but people in Poland don't especially value unmotivated friendly behavior and don't bother with a lot of superficial politeness. The good news is you don't have to be any more polite to them than they are to you. Feel free to talk back and raise your voice (wihtout completely losing your temper). If you can hold your own in an argument people will like you a lot more (odd but true).

- Do you have any hobbies or special interests? There are probably Polish people with similar interests and they can probably be found on line. If you don't have a hobby or special interest start browsing around on line looking for one. Even if you're not that interested in the beginning it can lead to making social contacts in real life. Your written Polish will get a work out but that's a side benefit. On line might not be that satisfying in the beginning but could lead to meat space friendships.

- Speak frankly with your wife about how her social contacts and relatives are not enough for you. She might not have any idea since most Polish people (like most continentals ) tend to have narrow social circles (and a philosophy that family is always better than friends). Ask her if she would be happy dealing with no one but your family and friends. Empathy tends not to be a Polish strength but the prospect of you becoming a skype daddy husband might make her more flexible about you needing to establish some kind of extra-family social life.

Good luck, I'll write more as I think of it....

It's a dead end post industrial town, with old rotting housing from the early 1900s, dominated by communist housing estates, stuck bang in the middle of nowhere, if you discount the twin city of Trzebinia - which is even more of a dump. The whole area stinks because of the oil refinery. No bloody wonder the lad is depressed:(

It's just a little too far from Krakow to make it a simple matter to get there (if a beer is the order of the day.....) The train runs once in a blue moon ( a lot of the trains have better taste than to actually stop there)

It is however surrounded by natural beauty and national park, and as you and others have said, the OP has to accept that not everybody can show the pearly whites and clap him on the back.

Maybe he should go to a few name -day parties?:)) They are all the rage in that area (I know). Plenty of bonding at those, after a bottle or two:) However, seeing as he is young, he obviously doesn't want the endless tour of the relatives, the cake, the sit downs, the (accidental) formalities. Instead of doing the obvious and getting himself some diversionary "interest", he should get a hobby. I could swop my Jimi Hendrix CDs with him, but I don't suppose he knows who Hendrix was:)


Superb synopsis actually:) If I say so myself (skilled as I am in all things societal.......)

Thank you again for your input guys, I do learn more about "construction of Poles mentality" from this forum than I do living between them, which is very good. I must say that yesterday while writing that post I felt quite depressed, it's a different day now but this whole "down pressure" still exist in back of my mind.

Unfortunately cannot say much towards hobbies, there is few things I do or like doing but I don't find them to be necessary in my daily life, still looking for some sort of hobby but hey I'm 32 so it might be a bit too late for that - who knows...

Dougpol1 - I like your description of this town, yes it is not great, we are living on the road where we are surrounded by new houses (a posh area would be definitely an exaggeration but end of the day- who knows, it is completely different than it is in UK, you have a pretty house next to some nasty piece of work everywhere, in UK this is more in areas so everyone knows where the posh areas are and equally the prices match the level of your neighborhood), Trzebinia - sure, this stinks of oil wherever you go but I must say CHrzanow is rather clean, again maybe we are just lucky enough to live in a "better" part of it. I have never used train in Poland, have tried bus to Krakow some time ago and this wasn't the best experience, by the time I was in Krakow I felt exhausted, yet still had to make a trip back home... The place I like going/driving to is Silesia centre in Katowice, there are few places where you can sit down and few nice places you can go. I do like all of these little shops with wrist watches, I would adopt that as a hobby but certainly it's not affordable hobby, can have two nice watches and this is where the hobby of collecting ends...

I don't drink alcohol, I know this is the great barrier removal but I just don't like it, ok I can have a glass of martini with redbull or malibu with milk or a glass of wine with my dinner and this is about it really...

I definitely should get a hobby but there is nothing currently apart of my work where I will burn myself down at some point, which keeps me being interested in, sure I know who Jimi Hendrix is, also listening to Paulo Coelho and Tony Bennett - do you know these? - you can get from this that I was born old :)

Have a good day :)

Reading the OP's comments, par for the course. Seems to me the OP and his wife better get thier 5 year plan togther or they are heading for the breakers yard. I get quite tired of Poles and gone native types harking on about Polish history - quite frankly many would be diagnosed with OCD in the West. Poland is tough, its nor for the faint hearted, if you are not tough or smart you will not survive here - thats life in Poland.s for Polish people not being friendly, I have never met people who are more friendlier than Poles and I have travelled some. The OP needs to get off the pot and stop thinking grass is greener - maybe relocate to Krakow or Warsaw there is a bigger expat community. Get rid of the fear which is holding you back, this affects all non Poles in Poland sooner or later.

Hi Messageman,

Thanks for your comments. We trying to have some plans for future but we cannot really see/go as far as one year these days. There is nothing long term these days, we don't have any mortgages or any other commitments which will help us to get a 5 year plan... I think our marriage is still very strong even if we don't always have same thing to say... I have traveled myself a lot and I must say that if you are a visitor in country for let say 1-2 weeks you will have an idea that people are very friendly (maybe apart of Italians, I found them to be super rude...) I have also been in Czech, I must say that Czech people are more happy than Poles (overall of course)...

Cannot relocate as we built the house here, everything putting this plan together took us about 4 years prior to me moving here so I don't really fancy another move to some uncertain location which more likely would be much more expensive too. End of the day I will be willing to buy a house outside London - Surrey or Kent and keep it as a second home than spending pretty much same in Warsaw/Krakow... Definitely there is a fear but also a curiosity, I'm trying to socialise, but I'm failing here where the same "job" was done in UK and other countries (Western) and succeeded

Mafketis also hit it square on the head! Superficiality in general is distrusted by many Northern as well as Eastern Europeans on the whole! In the case of the Poles, this is completely understandable, owing to their long plight under Communism and the tendency of chronic snitching among neighbors, co-workers and sometimes even friends.

Perhaps among Europeans, only the Southern French, Spaniards and Italians warm up to a stranger smiling for no apparent reason. Poles don't and the same goes for small talk! Perhaps were the tables turned and some drop-dead gorgeous hunk from, say, Katowice went to Texas and decided to chat up some cute cowgirl, the latter might be appreciative. After all, Americans are practically weened on PR. In Poland however, were some good-looking footballer interested in chatting up an attractive Polish woman, unless the American were MEGA-rich, chances are if he were just average, he wouldn't get too friendly a reception:-)

It's all a question of perception, really.

What about us Irish? 'We're European you know!

@Atch, I distinguish purposely and for geographical along with geoPOLITICAL accuracy Continental Europeans from "Insular" Europeans, the latter including Britons of every stripe aka the English, Irish, Welsh, and Scottish):-)

When I speak of Europeans in this context, I'm referring almost solely to those on the mainland, among them (for purely historical reasons) the Scandinavians.

Sorry if you felt slighted!

Luke84, not sure if you have a car permanently or just access to one part of the time, but there's loads of places to go with transportation. You are smack dab in the middle between Krakow and Katowice. Not that far from the Czech border and then it's just a few hours to Austria. Back in Poland you could go down to Zywiec which is a wonderful town nestled in the mountains or Bielsko Biala. Then you've got Zwardon farther south and the Slovakian border.

Here's another great place... take a couple of days and stay in a hotel.

inwaldpark.pl/

Southern Poland has loads to do.

Man Luke, your post sounds so much like me my first few years here. I am now here for 12 years and could not be happier. Year after year it got easier. I learned to adapt and stopped expecting things to be like it was at home. I started to make a few friends, I started riding my bike by myself and with my family and it is my thing. Have you looked around at localish language shools to try and find other English native speakers? Maybe figure out an interest an find a way to join others in doing that. Fishing, biking, other sports, camping, book club, cars? Something in there and start finding ways to connect with people with your interests.

How is your Polish/

I'm pretty sure we (foreign long term residents) have all been through rough patches, especially in the first couple of years. Fortunately mine didn't last too long. But there's no avoiding them completely. Just recognizing them for what they are (real and sucky but temporary) can be half the battle of getting through them.

And there's no reason to expect that any foreigner living long term in another country is free of them but that's kind of off topic.

Of course we forget the good things.
Always points of interest. Exploring. Polands' problems are not yours. A free pass (sometimes) when you mess up. Friendly curious faces (just maybe Luke should get out of his car and bike it as the previous poster suggested) and as Roz postulated, get the king of dogs - a labrador - if not for him, for his sprog :))

Luke, the first year is the hardest, in my first year I almost left Poland for good ;). At that time I made my first friend here in Poland, he helped me a lot, at first with finding a job ( me and my wife were really struggling at that time ), working with him I met some other people who introduced me to some other and so on. Today, I'm a polish citizen, is my 6-th year here and honestly I am sometimes homesick but with everyday which passes I feel more connected to this country.

And I live in a city not much bigger than Chrzanow ( and not very far from it :D ), but even here I found some fantastic people who helped me settle and feel welcomed. Shame you don't drink alcohol, that would be a massive help in finding new friends. IMO, you should give it some time and don't try very hard because it will backfire on you. As someone said here before, when discussing something there is nothing wrong with being a bit stubborn if you know for sure you are right.

I wish you the best of luck :)


If Luke takes a little puppy he's going to have a lot of female friends :D

I concur roundly, Luke old man!

Just give them a chance and try not to judge based upon your own English suppositions of what is considered "correct", even "normal" behavior back home:-)

Have a blast!

Hey Luke! I guess this is not something strange in Poland. They tend to be quite rude to foreign people. I have been studying here for 2 years and I do have many friends but none of them are Polish

Once again, James, Luke et al, having been to Poland, albeit briefly, and gotten to know many Poles personally during my frequent sojourns in Europe, I must confess that I didn't find the average Pole "rude" as much as disarmingly direct in contrast with Americans, who can talk 'till their blue in the face, but it usually amounts to squat:-)

Then again, I'm still convinced it all depends upon how much of the local lingo you speak.

Cracking in Katowice. Great types everywhere. It does have a great deal to do with communication though as to how you go. I don't speak a word of the Silesian dialect for instance, but people in Chorzow and Bytom (I miss those guys) are akin to those in Nottingham, and we understood each other:) But then I am a road cyclist, and my pals were drawn from that group. And in Three City, it is a multi-national drinks scene and more accessible for foreigners.

Once more, it's what one brings to the experience in the end! I'm sure you're having a super time because of the impression you've made and probably without pre-conceived notions either:-)

Admittedly, it's easier knowing the language aka local dialect. However, sometimes you can bond without knowing the partner's tongue.

Ah, but you see, Poland isn't a Western country. It's a post-communist country. So, for you it's not like a different continent, it's more like a different planet :) Be grateful your wife isn't Russian, you'd probably wouldn't survive there... Russia was longer under communist rule (and it was harsher) than Poland so it's like every problem that you'd encounter in Poland is magnified there - Russians are viewed as even less smiley, more rude, colder, less empathic, bigger corruption, nepotism, more crazy drivers, etc. etc. But when I got to know Russians on the internet they turned out to be very friendly, warm, sentimental and curious people eager to find some connection with you. Also rather sensitive and easy to hurt. I even had one Russian nationalist with pretty objectionable views sending me a picture of a crocus getting through snow for my birthday and wishing me a happy birthday lol Of course, it also depends on your attitude too - Russophobes weren't treated very well by Russians, obviously lol

I imagine it's the same in real life - once you get to know some Russians and cease to be "a stranger" to them they will turn out to be warm, friendly people.

Poles are more or less like this too, so when you see a Pole - imagine a cactus lol It's tough and spikey on the outside but soft and mushy inside ;)

We gotta retain that tough outer shell in order to survive in hostile environment lol Just like cactus in the desert :) Life in Poland wasn't and still isn't easy and Poles are in result somewhat tough and rough, but that's more on the outside. Once you get to that soft inside you may get a friend for life, who knows :)


I doubt that, tbh, I get a new hobby every few years lol Once it was figure skating, then Japanese culture and anime, then astronomy and stargazing with a telescope, then Russia and Russian culture and I'm still interested to some extent in all of that. I have some core interests that don't change but as you can see getting a hobby later in life is possible.


You can always start something and check if it keeps you interested. Dougpol1 wrote that Chrzanów is "surrounded by natural beauty and national park" - maybe you could get interested in photography? Taking photos of nature around you could help you to explore and get to know the area. Or you could find someone who likes wild mushroom hunting in the forest, which is quite popular in Poland - it can be fun for the whole family. You could buy yourself a book about mushrooms with pictures and try and find and identify them in the forest. Sometimes you can find really weird, alien-like looking ones :D Unless you're not much of a nature-guy, of course.

mafketis:


I agree with mafketis, this could be a good idea. I would even go to different cities to meet with people I got to know on-line, my brother met his wife like this and now they're expecting a baby :)))


Isn't he a writer?


Hey, I know that roz and me are both awesome women but are we really that indistinguishable? ;D

Thanks Paulina:( Choked on my brekkie cereal.
The OP could be listening to an audio book?:)

I think this is not for him. The OP is looking for some social contacts. In one of his previous threads which he started only after a month-long stay in Poland, he complained of the same problems as he does now. He admitted working remotedly from home, so he evidently lacks contacts with people other than his wife and child or occasionally his in-laws. Don't advocate him any hobbies which don't involve contacts with people as he has one such which is the work he loves.

I think he really has a problem. Even a computer-geek type which I suspect he may be one to some extent needs socializing. A workplace where you can meet other people offers you a chance for that and is a welcome change from living exclusively in the family circle. When I used to live in the UK for some time which was living in an environment completely strange to me, I affiliated myself to an institution where I could go and meet people other than my British friends with whom I was staying and with whom I was perfectly OK. I think such an opportunity may be a very refreshing one for the OP. For example, I imagine he may volunteer to teach English for two hours a week (teaching children might be even more exciting than teaching adults perhaps). If I were to live in a family circle only, I would have gone mad quickly, so the OP has had a lot of patience so far. Living in a foreign country is exciting in itself, but you must find a kind of balance in it, too. The life of the OP is in a way very imbalanced and that is his real problem, not the social "infrastructure" of Poland to which you may gradually get used to.

Good stuff - PF to the rescue once more! In the UK, Luke could weed old ladies' gardens. This is much of that ilk. Jolly good advice. Maybe there is a protestant church there too (well, there will be......)

SilesiaExplorer - Thanks for the tips. I do have car (two in fact which I barely touch), I do have also a bike, I will try the places you mentioned, TA.

Dhrynio - Thanks for that, good to hear that I'm not alone with this and that is more likely something you need to go through, couldn't see local language school but trying to pick up language from TV, couldn't find English native speakers but this is probably my fault as I didn't go out often... Polish is OK I would say, my writing Polish sucks but I can talk 60-70% (I wish) and I can understand almost everything.

Mafketis - Cheers, acknowledged :)

nope - I can see that you can refer to this subject well, 6 years - well done! You mentioned that your city is close by or "not far from it", what is the name of your city? Do you like it here? Thanks a lot, all the best!

P.S. I do have a dog - 6 years old Cocker Spaniel :) he is also an English citizen in Poland and he like it here very much :)

Dougpol1 - I bet Three City is nice, how long you are there for?

Paulina - Paulo Coelho is indeed a writer, and he is writing songs too, sorry I wasn't clear on that, he is not a singer :)

Dougpol1 - ha, audiobooks too! but he was writing songs too, example:
youtube.com/watch?v=6lktPAzrOhU

Ziemowit - spot on with your comments! I never felt a need of socializing back in UK, wherever I go - a local coffee shop, restaurant, barber I knew everyone and we chatted, here (in Poland) this is not happening, wherever you go - people just do their jobs - I cannot see any passion coming from it :( And this mood travels from one to another. I was thinking to do some voluntary work, still don't know what else you can do in Poland in that respect, but teaching is not for me, I was trying to give English lessons to my own wife - all I can say is that this is not for me :)

Thanks a lot - I do have some patience, I just running out of it, going mad already :)

Thank you for all of your comments on that - members of this forum make me feel like I'm socializing!

Before listening to any advice, you should have a sound diagnosis first :

P-r-o-b-l-e-m 1


* Symptom : I am not able to experience any occasional (socializing) contacts with people
* Reason : ? (try to find any possible reasons for that on your side before finding any on the "Polish" side, it's not really a game to blame anybody, after you find the reasons on your side, move to naming the reasons on the "Polish" side)

* Cure : ? (suggestions welcome, but only after making the diagnosis)

There is some fun in it, but if you fancy that, you may try this "diagnosis" game. It is indeed a sort of self-diagnosis with a little help from your "friends".

Hi Ziemowit,

This would be a good tactic indeed but only if I would have general problem to have contact with people, as I mentioned (maybe not clear enough) wherever I went back in UK (even for the first time) there was no problem communicate with people (again these people were not only English, but most of them certainly were), here I have tried same steps to open up conversation - again maybe it's a small town problem, maybe in bigger places like Krakow people are more open... I was just doing one to one comparison and conclusion is that were I successes in UK I have failed in Poland...

Diagnosis game or if you'd like a methodology was a part of our education back in school which has started from very early age :)

Luke, I was mistaken about the place :D, I saw and wrote Chrzanow but for an inexplicable reason had in mind a tiny place called Czchow, I live in Nowy Sacz, south east of Krakow.About 150 km from Chrzanow, so not so close :D :D.

And here I like it ( most of the time ), there are places to hate and to love here like everywhere but mostly is ok :). I have a few friends, one very close friend and of course my wife who has helped me a lot in meeting new people.

As Paulina said earlier, imagine a cactus, that's how poles are. Once you get past the "spines" you're one of them, at least from my experience.

Hi Nope,

Oh ok, 150 km is a quite a distance but can catch up at some point if you will have some time, maybe we can make it in Krakow:) At least there are some nice food places :) Lunch is on me :)

Would you think learning a history of Poland would help understanding the average Pole? Everyone seems to blame old, communist days which were all gone over 25 years ago but even new generation are still suffering from it... Not sure - maybe schools did a bad job?

I sent you a PM.


God yes!! My wife has a cousin who is the type you described: knows everything better, was there,did that etc and he studied european studies or something like that and we ALWAYS argue a lot :D. As soon as people around you will notice you know something more about Poland, I think they'll be more interested in what you say or think.