Why do most Polish people feel the Muslim culture would be a deterrent within the Polish culture ? Would Poland soon lose the society that they now enjoy because of the demands that the Muslims have made in other countries that they have immigrated to ?
How tolerant would the Polish people be to these demands and changes forced upon them ? Would Muslim's Islamic immigration destroy Polands Christian culture ? As Poland sees what is happening in other countries with large Muslim immigration are they ready for the negative consequences in their country ?
If discussions go off-topic (ie. without real and direct reference to Poland), it will be moved to Random chat.
@johhny_reb; asking questions or making statements? You sort of dictated your own answers on this from the start, but here, let's take a look.
There is more than a billion Muslims in the world of many vastly different cultural backgrounds. You can't reduce them all to one simple "Muslim Culture", just like you cannot reduce all Christians to one simple "Christian Culture." Most Russians are Christian, but you will find that they are culturally and socially different from Irish, Canadian, Lebanese or Argentinian Christians.
I am under the impression that the average person in Poland doesn't think about this subject and doesn't really care.
Those that do are either nervous (typically after listening to certain media) or curious.
Poles that have lived with and interacted with Muslims generally tend to feel positively about them.
"I am under the impression that the average person in Poland doesn't think about this subject and doesn't really care."
Yet.
"Poles that have lived with and interacted with Muslims generally tend to feel positively about them."
Unless they actually had lived in a Muslim country.
Then their opinion change, at least is what i see here among my polish friends.
Putting politically correctness aside, what holds a society is dangerous times is how culturally identified are the citizens of that society.
Examples: That is how the Armenians, Poles or Israelis survived to so many agressions.
If the society doesn't have any cultural tie among most of its citizens, in the harshest times it is destinated to disappear.
Examples: In the past, Mayans, Persians or Rhodesians. Currently, almost entire South America (Which is a complete absolutely messed place that because of the so called "diversity", the few homogeneous places, like countryside of Sao Paulo, RM Chile or Uruguay are, not surprinsingly, the most developed ones)
Unless they actually had lived in a Muslim country.
To the contrary, for the most part I see positive feelings amongst this specific group, especially those that have lived in Egypt, UAE, Oman, Qatar, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq or Iran. The main exception is those that lived in Saudi Arabia - some feel negative and some feel positive.
I am sure that those that have lived in Saudi Arabia would say there is more to the country than that. While I agree it can be socially (and literally) dry for expats, some have come back with long lasting friendships (typically with other expats they met there) and many have come back with enough savings to do something with their lives :)
A little off thread but allowable. I was more wondering about the deterrents like the taxing of the school systems, mosques with noise blasting down their streets, the extra burdon on the welfare system, the taking over of suburban neighborhoods, the increase in violent crime, taxing the health care system, ect.
Those kinds of deterrents to Poland that have been seen in other countries with floods of Muslim immigrants.
Dunno about America, but there aren't any mosques doing that in Europe. You'll hear the call to prayer in Bosnia, but that's about it, and it's no more irritating than church bells.
taxing the health care system
Locals are more than able to do it themselves. Everyone in Poland has stories about the Babcia that will make appointments in 10 different doctors because... well, what else has she got to do?
Church bells go away in a minute as the whaling goes on forever. Just wait, you will see once they get their foot in the door in Poland. Grandma is one person. Muslims bring their ten wives, can only be legally married to one so he takes care of that one financially and put the other nine on welfare to pick up the tab by the local tax payers as all ten of them pop out babies like rabbits which all go on Polands welfare burdon. In the British grade schools 25% of the students are Muslim someone said. My question is do the Muslims pay for 25% of the schools operating system and the extra cost of teaching them to speak a foreign language....... English and in your case Polish ?
Johnny, I find the overall framework of this thread kind of one-sided. You are implying that it is really up to Poles to accept Muslims as they are, but it is not up to Muslims to adapt and make effort to be accepted. This is a problem. Like another commentator said, there is actually diversity in the "Muslim culture." There is diversity between countries (S. Arabia, Turkey, Indonesia, etc.). There is diversity in different denominations too: Sunni, Shia, Ismaili, Ibadi, and actually a few others. There is diversity among Muslims in the level to which they practice (some maybe just "cultural Muslims" and might actually be better defined as agnostic or atheist, some are in the middle of how religious they are, and some are fundamentalist).
Poland has a small Muslim Tatar community, that has been around for centuries. This is evidence that it is possible for Muslims to coexist here. Obviously the Tatar community made adjustments and was accepted (I'm mainly referring to past decades; I don't know how it is now). Whether the same thing would apply to "devout" Muslims (from M. East, Africa, or Asia) who just arrive now in Poland is debatable. If you read the news, many Muslims haven't exactly helped their image in "not looking like a threat." I know many Muslims are good people, but a percentage is not, and it doesn't take a lot of people to damage the image of an entire religion (especially so consistently and on so many occasions). I have heard of negative news to do with Christians (obviously), Buddhists, Sikhs, and Hindus, but not to the level I have heard about Muslims.
I think the overall problem with Sunni Islam is that it is so decentralized, that almost anyone hijack the religion and preach hatred and then get followers. This leads me to my next point... the few mosques you are referring to, who would actually staff them? Saudi-trained imams? If so, this is a problem right there -- Saudi Arabia is known for a pretty extreme Wahabbi form of Islam (not sure if I spelled it right) -- probably, not that different from ISIS. I certainly would NOT want to see that in Poland.
FYI... I'm not exactly right leaning on many issues (I'm not that left either), but even I have reservations about Islam and the directions it can take. I noticed some commentators here were quite critical of the Catholic Church, and sometimes the criticisms were justified. Well, you could use many of the same arguments against Islam (i.e. sexism or homophobia).
So do I (as well as towards organized religion in general). The decentralization you mentioned earlier is a very important aspect. If you have time, try to research Islamic philosophies and how they evolved. They are really vastly different from one another and many don't recognize or don't acknowledge the others.
Johnny, you are assuming the worst possible behavior. I think it is the duty of everyone involved to make sure that newcomers are correctly integrated in society and not cordoned off in closed ghettos.
Merged: Sikh Londoner 'spat on by Polish bouncer at Krakow nightclub and called Muslim terrorist'
I'm utterly sickened to read about this, I really had hoped that Poland was moving away from this kind of thing. I'm even more unhappy to read about the reaction of the police; those 'policemen' should be at the very least suspended.
A British Sikh has told of his horror of being spat at, punched in the face and branded a "Muslim terrorist" as he tried to enter a Polish nightclub while wearing his turban.
London-born Nav Sawhney, 25, travelled to Krakow last Friday for a weekend away with a friend when he said he was subjected to a verbal and physical attack by the nightclub bouncer. ...
He said: [The police] said 'what did you expect when you come to Krakow after the Paris attacks. Brown people and white people are treated differently here to in the UK'.
Full article is here: standard.co.uk/news/uk/sikh-londoner-spat-on-by-polish-bouncer-at-krakow-nightclub-and-called-muslim-terrorist-a3128021.html
Nightclub bouncers are perhaps beyond help, but perhaps the police could educate their officers about the difference between Muslims and Sikhs for a start. Sikhism is arguably the most peaceful religion on Earth.
Also, Sikhs wear turbans and Muslims don't. But you know what Roger and Harry we only know this due to Britain invading the Punjab, kidnapping the heir and disinheriting him, and stealing the Koh i Noor diamond.
Just saying. What I mean is, there is no need to get all holier-than-thou about it.
This is a post from a blogger I follow on Facebook:
Over the last month in Poland: - An attack on two Arab restaurants in Gdansk by youths armed with an airgun - British Sikh tourist in Krakow spat on and punched by a nightclub bouncer calling him a 'terrorist' - Syrian Christian in Poznan hospitalised after severe beating by three men calling him a 'f*****g Muslim' - Indian Hindu attacked in Wrzesnia by a man calling him a 'Syrian' - Egyptian man beaten up in Wroclaw by group of four men - Polish wife of Indian Sikh man in Wroclaw complains of him suffering repeated verbal attacks, being spat on and accused of being a Muslim terrorist
facebook/notesfrompoland
The only good thing about this is that these attacks are being reported and both the media and people are taking notice. At least it is not being swept under the carpet.
It is terrible though and I hope that none of my foreign friends here come victim of similar cowardly attacks.
Hello my Polish brothers and sisters, I'm from India and I'm a Muslim, I came to Poland 15 days ago and I found here people really don't like Muslims but I'm not feeling bad because it's their own thinking or opinion you can say, but I just want to tell everyone here that any Muslim is not a terrorist and people who bombing or killing people they are not Muslim because Islam is the religion of peace and mercy for everyone so it's all politics whatever is happening, and people judge Muslims by news and in the news they only show bad things because that's called news and for TRP they made it more worst, we also have family, siblings and wives so we are normal human as everyone, so please judge us as a human being not as a Muslim or any.
I really love to meet any Muslims here in Poland and I want to practice more about Islam and I believe reverted Muslims are more strict about following Islam and InshaAllah I will try to get marry here soon as I can see here it's very tough to live alone without doing any haram.
Cant think of a country where they are not seen as a deterrent to modern life. Most places are polite about it. Also, it is not a matter of seeing it like that, it's a fact
Islam is the religion of peace and mercy for everyone
I think you are in the wrong place to practice taqqiya, try Germany or Sweden, people there just lap up lies gladly.
Also, Poland is a Catholic country. I'll never understand how Muslims come to x-tian countries and then immediately start to complain how difficult it is and how the country should become more islamic to suit their needs.
There are like 60 countries to choose from which already have islam as state religion.
So why not choose one of those? When going to a foreign country, YOU have to adapt to the locals, not vice versa.
Technically Islam is the religion of submission, considering that's what the word is in English. Submission to Islam, according to Mohammed and every true follower of him.
Anyone saying it's the religion of peace is either parroting the previous two American POTS or trolling.
