What don't you like about Poland or Polish People?

So there are plenty of reasons to absolute love Poland and it's people - the history, the culture, the beautiful girls, the high quality vodka, the parks, museums, and countless landmarks, the amazing scenery with everything from mountains in Zakopane to the Baltic sea port of Gdansk, etc. The list can go on and on of how amazing Poland is and how awesome Polish people are...

BUT...

What are the things you don't like? For me it's a few:

The food - I'm not a big fan of Polish food. I like placki ziemniaczane, rosol, bigos, biala ryba, and kotlety schabowe (although that's rather generic) I cannot stand some of the others like golabki (ground meat covered in cabbage with some sauce that I believe is made out of tomatoes) or galatera (basically jello with meat inside of it).

The people - there's really two categories - the Poles in Poland and the immigrant Poles living in the US or other countries. While Polish in general people are very friendly and hospitable, some are very cunning and manipulative. Oftentimes, people will pretend to be your friend to use you. Middle aged women are notorious for being gossipers and will try to 'ciagnac jezyk' which means 'pull your tongue' - basically get information from you like about your family, your income, etc. so they can gossip about it. I find that this is more common amongst Polish immigrant communities in the US more so than in Poland. In Poland, although the trend is diminishing a bit, the people think that if you are from the US that you are automatically a millionaire. While some will be happy for your financial situation, others will attempt to exploit it. One thing that also bothers me, although I do understand the reasons, is when you go to a Polish persons house they automatically put a ton of food on the table and expect you to eat it all. It is often rude if you do not. That means that sometimes you could have just came back from a big lunch or dinner to visit a person and despite politely saying No Thank you and Please, I am stuffed I cannot eat anymore many times they will nonetheless put a ton of food on the table. If you do not eat it or do not eat much they will ask you if you don't like their cooking when in reality you're are just totally stuffed. It is a nice gesture but sometimes goes way too far.

Closed mindedness - Polish people make crazy assumptions and have some really wacky ideas. They will also tell their kids crazy things like if you play with fire you will pee yourself at night. That's rather innocent kid stuff but some of the ideas they have are relevant to adult life. For example, a lot of Polish people are ultra religious and hence believe that you should under no circumstances get divorced, you should not have sex before marriage, and so on. I know several Polish women who have an alcoholic abusive husband but will never get divorced because they believe their religion does not condone when in fact a priest can annul a marriage in certain circumstance. Nonetheless, many Poles often use a rather strict interpretation of Catholicism to guide their lives. The Polish will often also make crazy generalizations especially about people and races. For example, many Poles view Russians or Jews as inherently evil. Also, they will use the word 'Russian' to frequently describe something as 'low quality' - i.e. ten samochod chodzi jak Ruski traktor - this car is running like a Russian tractor.They believe that being gay is a moral deficiency and is a threat to their homogeneous Christian society. (I personally don't support gays and I do not like that our society propagates gay ideals but that does not mean I hate gay people or will go out and beat them up. I in fact have two friends that are gay but these friends do not like blatantly advertise their gayness or pick arguments with those who have different ideas and beliefs than their own). A lot of Polish people, in both the US and in Poland, tend to be rather racist and xenophobic and I think that mentality comes from a history of partitions, war, and exploitation of the Polish land and race.

Immigrant attitude - I have noticed there is a HUGE difference between the Poles living in Poland and the immigrant Poles - at least in the US as I can't speak to those in England or other countries. The immigrants in the US tend to be much less cultured, much less polite, much more conniving and manipulative (especially the women who love to engage in gossip with others in their parish or community over a cup of coffee) and have a general arrogant attitude of 'like they own the place.' They have also acquired a very materialistic mindset while live in the US. Perhaps because they grew up and lived most of their lives through communism (of course I am referring to the middle aged immigrants in this case) and came to the US because they believed that you can become instantly rich here. I am of course generalizing - but this is something that I have seen A LOT especially since I grew up on the North side of Chicago in a majority Polish area, went to a majority Polish school, and most of the people my family would associate with were also Polish. The men will frequently work in the construction industry and the women will frequently work as maids. The men will often wear socks with sandals in the summer - something you rarely see other people do.This is changing gradually now as that generation's children is much more sophisticated and oftentimes college educated. The good thing though is the immigrants are very hard working and really strive to put their family in a better situation. Also, they are very hospitable and will always be willing to cook for your and have a meal together. The immigrants work their butts off in physical jobs so they can purchase a nice home and put their kids through college. Gradually, this attitude and behavior is changing as the immigrants from the late 80's, 90's and early 2000's has now lived here for a while and also learned a lot from their own children. The younger immigrants, those in their teens, 20's or even early 30's tend not to really have a lot of these negative characteristics. They are much more open minded and are often more educated than the generations before them. A lot have already experienced the 'Western culture' in post Communist Poland so the US culture isn't as much of a shock to them as those that came from Communist Poland to the US like 20, 25, 30 plus years ago.

That's about it for now as far as the people are concerned. Some of the things that bug me about Poland are the following:

Low wages, high real estate prices (in the city center of Wroclaw a 3 bedroom condo can go for easily $400k if not more), expensive gasoline, taxes on engine size, expensive electronics, overly fierce competition in the work place, highly educated young workforce that is either unemployed or stuck working at a fast food restaurant or security guard at a mall for 8 zloty an hour, bad roads (although they are getting better gradually), crazy drivers - speeding 140 km/h in a Fiat Cinquento down a country rode so they can pass people up (first car I ever learned how to drive by the way - 70 horsepower 3 cyl engine - oh ya baby!!), small apartments in the city, depressing looking 'bloki' complexes from the communist era, paying to use the bathroom in many places, paying extra if you buy a Coca Cola in a glass bottle in a small convenience store and want to take it home otherwise you have to drink it on the spot if you don't want to pay the extra 10 groszy or whatever it is, and that's about it = )

I love Poland, I truly do. I was born there, have vacationed there many times, and I plan to go back there and my wish is to be buried in Poland. There are good and bad things in every country and every race. In summary, Poland and it's people have countless wonderful things about them. Poland is a beautiful country and has beautiful people - both on the outside and the inside. No one can ever say that a Pole was not hospitable to them. They will invite you into their home for a homemade obiad and continue to put more and more food and drink in front of you despite your pleas because they are just genuinely hospitable.

That's really not the case at all. One interesting thing about JPII was that while young Poles adored him, they also completely ignored his teachings on sexual morality. Those people are middle aged now, and they haven't changed their attitudes.


Untrue.

otodom.pl/oferta/1-5km-od-rynku-nowe-gotowe-apartamenty-w-centrum-ID2UBnx.html#d38b12e8f6

It's true that there are a handful of properties on the market at that price, but they'll probably still be on the market in 6 months time.


Not true as well. Anyone highly educated that's unemployed in Poland is unemployable.

Again it's a generalization.

I was in Poland just a few months ago in Wroclaw. The reason why is because we own a plot of land about 1.3 Ha in Psie Pole. Long story short, a construction company snuck onto our land, dug an enormous hole, and put in a bunch of dirt and rubble. Anyway, this property with the house (rather average 2 story house - nice, but needed a lot of remodeling) was worth 4 million zloty when it was appraised in 2015. This was actually down about 500k zloty from a few years ago when the properties were really booming. Nonetheless, the prices for real estate are very high relative to the earnings of Polish people. Yes, there are condos that can be purchased for $30k, $80k, and even $100-$150k for a nice fairly large place. However, if you want something in a hot area that is over 3,600 square feet you will pay at least $300k. I have seen several listings in Wroclaw of very pretty homes that were $600k and even as high as $1.3 mil - they were of course cheaper than say a house in London of France of the same type but actually the housing prices for what you get in Wroclaw are rather similar to that in Chicago.

Yes, the young loved John Paul II and ignored the moral sex teachings. I was referring more towards older generations - i.e. those born in the 50's, 60's, early 70's. Those born after the mid-late 70s both those born in Poland and who have stayed there and those have immigrated to the US have a much more open world view and are not nearly as religious as those of the aforementioned older generations.

Not true as well. Anyone highly educated that's unemployed in Poland is unemployable.

Youth unemployment consistently hovers over 20%. By youth, usually this criteria refers to those 18 to 25. Yes, educated Polish people CAN get a job - but it is very difficult for them to get a good, high paying job especially if they only have a bachelors. In Poland, or at least in Wroclaw, to be a bank teller you need to have a bachelor's degree. This is why so many young Polish people leave for England, the US, and Germany. They simply don't feel that they can get a good paying job in Poland.

tradingeconomics.com/poland/youth-unemployment-rate

@Adrian: thanks for your comments! Yes, Poles like any other population are not perfect and among them anything can be found.

You crack me up when writing about nosy older women! I have experienced them quite a few times and I was amazed! Yes, not rare that out of the blue, they start asking personal questions (whether we are married, have kids (not too "bad") but how much we earn, how much we paid for our flat....) even if we have never met before. Now, when asked such questions, I just tell them some BS in French and give them a dirty look and they go away.

And yes, too many (most) Poles are still so closed minded, prejudiced and xenophobic and that is what I don't like. Well, no sweat, because I only interact with educated/well off classes, who obviously travel, learn languages and are open. Also, what I don't like in Poland is the deep social inequality (I have often read that Poland was among the least equalitarian societies in Europe), really too much difference between classes and too me this is wrong. And yes, like you write, prices for real estate (especially in cities) are completely disconnected from Polish average salaries. I freak out when I hear people taking credit for some 40 years (I do know people in said situation) in order to buy a lousy flat.

So on the one hand, you deal with educated and well-off classes, but on the other you despair at the deep social inequality? Did I get that right?

What is the problem? ,). Even if I interact with the "upper crust", why should I not want that the very poor get a better deal (the rich would still be very rich)? In Poland the differences between social classes are very wide and much wider than in most European countries. Not only it is morally wrong and it is also dangerous for democracy!

What's so difficult to understand?

Seriously now InPolska, your tone of voice when you speak about the lower classes in Poland is usually contemptuous. I'm afraid you sound like an intellectual and cultural snob. Being the linguist that you are, you must be familiar with the German phrase that translates as 'the tone makes the music?'

Because you appear to be disparaging the lower classes as being "closed minded, prejudiced and xenophobic", saying that it's "no sweat, because I only interact with educated/well of classes", only to then bemoan the class divide.

Seems contradictory to me, though it may just be your uneducated use of language.

and yes, in ANY country, the least educated (= the least affluent) are the most prejudiced, the most xenophobic/racist, the most closed minded. More educated (= usually more affluent) learn languages, travel, get informed from various and reliable sources (other than Daily Sh###t, Fox News or YouTube ;)) and as a result are (generally) (more) open minded and (more) tolerant. It is so not only in Poland but everywhere else.

Education is the key to open minds (and by extension educated people are most successful in life).

Well, I need to get ready for work so no time and no desire to continue with trolls! Start your own monologue!

I will add my two pennies worth. In Poland, (my personal view) I find that people are judged on their financial situation, that is what they do or do not possess. If you have a flat/apartment, the first thing is how much you paid for it, how much could you sell it for, but nobody wants to know how much money you used to get it to its current state. With them it's only the bottom line that counts.

There are good and bad people everywhere, people that CARE about you and people that will STAB you in the back. This goes on everywhere.

I have a maxim in life: Always know who (the type of person/character) you are talking to, get them to open up and tell you everything about themselves, how great they are, how well educated, how financially settled - this gives you an idea of their character. You just keep quiet and admire their achievements.

Very interesting discussion,

A few pennies from me:

The food - There is actually a variety of food in Poland but i think it's not really healthy, it could be nice but after some time you will get bored, you mainly have potatoes, klucki slaskie (these I like), pierogi, pyzy, leniwe etc etc, so the whole range of the same thing which taste similar but looks different. The food in general is ok but long term you will have enough of it. I have some frozen seafood, indian sauces and rice in case I would badly need something new. I must say that pizza in Poland is quite nice, again not in every place, as some are rough but generally is ok.

Closed mindedness/education/attitude - I don't know how they teach in schools these days but most Poles I know who (30-40 years old) and are educated, have magister etc cannot make right decisions, this is why school didn't teach them how to think (so not their fault really), you will learn some poems etc but you would not have opened discussions in the room so you won't be able to use your creative mind. (again I don't know about education currently - this might be changed now)

Immigrant attitude - I believe this is non important matter, you have nice Polish people in US, UK, Australia etc, who knows what their goal is, who work hard, who are well educated and well mannered, same goes for other nations, you also have some con artist type of people who aspire to be "successful in different country", and they do anything to increase their position on how they are seen by others and how much money they can save (there won't make any success in a long run as they don't have any ideas on how to deal with money and how to invest or spend it correctly, finally there is this third type of people - a morons - these people destroy what they see, they don't care about anything and they are very bad tempered. Once when I've been in Krakow I have seen some English lads showing off, they were screaming and swearing (in Polish) but talking to each other in English, they could go to third "morons" class.

From what I observed Poland is still behind the western world, I guess this is a good thing as well as a bad thing, depends how they will use it. They should observe of what is going on and see moral consequences of any action politics take in "western Europe", then perhaps take all the best from it and ditch all of the bad things...

Back to subject on what I like and don't like about Poland and Polish people - mainly a business culture is way behind of what we have back in UK. Few examples from last couple of weeks:

- I have some faulty locks in my bus, so we called few local locksmiths and they simply cannot be bothered to look at those... They want me to remove the lock bring it to them and be ready "they will look at it when they find time" - again I don't know these people and this is not favor they doing to me, it's their job.

- I have 4x bikes, I called 2x people who are fixing bikes and dealing with them, one said he can sell me a new bike (even if my bikes are "new" - the oldest one is from 2012), second was the best, I have explained on what needs to be done, basically service on all bikes, see if pedals are solid, check brakes etc, one bike needs new tubes and they are taking cash only for repairs so a logical question of me was: how much this will cost me, roughly so I can get the cash out for you, his reply was -Nie jestem wrozka, niewiem - nice and professional... Good luck with that attitude...

- probably very common - I hate shopping at Kaufland or Carrefour, I used to shop in Piotr i Pawel (at least everything was nice and fresh there) but I actually stopped shopping at all. My wife is sorting out shopping or we take deliveries from Piotr i Pawel, people in these shops are quite rude, even on a till, they are very pretensional and they are acting like everyone is their enemy, of course this is not 100% of shop workers, but I do talk about 60-70% enough to make me quit the shopping :)

That is true. All this originates from the communist time when the dollar or any other "hard currency" (twarda waluta) used to be exchanged at an oxorbitant rate on the black market. Anyone from Poland working and earning money in the so-called West was automatically a millionaire when they came back to Poland after a relatively short period (one year could do) bringing their savings with them. You could easily buy yourself a flat or a house with that money and I personally know a number of people who did.

To this very day I myself tend to judge a hundred-dollar note as an exceptionally enormous amount of money and it is only when I calculate its face value to zloties that I realize it is worth much less than I originally thought.


Atch, this seems to be one of your fairest observation on the PF regarding our charming French lady.

No, ignorosaurus, it is not to gossip the way it is the case in the West where people of all ages indeed drag information out of you to make nasty gossip. No, it is not a trend either and it is not something that is diminishing. Older people, especially women will always gossip as there are fewer activities to do together - sounds logical. Now, Polish elderly come from a generation that was more hospitable, more talkative and so on, I know this is hard to grasp for Anglo Saxon who barely utters a word unless it is to spread nasty gossip, this is not the case with Polish people, stop judging Polish people in accordance with your western way of thinking.

Never a truer word was spoken.


Plus fat people and women who buy cheap underwear in supermarkets - quelle horreur!

You clearly do not know what classes we have in Poland. While during communism we had classes based not on how much one had in terms of personal possessions or how much one earned we divided society between the very educated, educated (university or ogolnoksztalcace liceum), the less educated but still representing some level such as technikum graduates and liceum (it can not be compared to tertiary courses in most western countries as it was at slightly or much higher level) and then zawodowka - trade school, like sholarships, tertiary training for job, mainly physical one. There is a fourth class - an interesting one - consisting of aristocracy (some educated, some not so but in both cases exhibiting particular characteristics). Those belonging to aristocracy still view themselves as above others, despite education or lack thereof. This was the divide. Now, because a lot of people have taken the advantage of a shift from socialism to capitalism the classes are now based on having more or less money but it is not a clear cut picture as it is in the West, education and less so aristocracy still play a role in class formation.


I have defended Poland here right from the beginning (how pathetic that on Polish forum we have to defend Poland) but interestingly it is not only foreigners who are bashing our country, take a look at some so called Polish here, Ironside, Ziemowit or Lenka to name a few suck ups and traitors, they openly, on many occasions, contribute to the bashing and even turn on other Polish because of their insecurities and desire to look "good" in front of westerners. Westerners at least show some unity, which is not what we Polish show here. I am not in favour of solidarity at any cost the way westerners or pioneers of it Jews display time and time again but a little more Polish loyalty instead of bashing your own would be good don't you think? I am not directing this against you by the way. This lack of solidarity I hate about us and this has to be confronted now more than ever. I thank you for sticking for Poland, good stuff, rare to see these days, unfortunately.

@Ktos : spot ! Systematic bashing (based upon mere cliches) reflect insecurity and jealousy. I make a difference between critics based upon personal experience and stupid bashing (too many in PF to name).

When I say "upper crust" i mean the richest. I also happen to be from a historical family (famous name, family home has been turned into State museum, my husband's grandmother was a princess - someone in PF could confirm it) so I kind of know re Polish society. Maybe also the reason why I don't have patience with scumy arch et al.

PS: I loved your post re American embassy. Unfortunately it is probay true...

I hate to tell you this, but that doesn't make them good people. IN fact quite the opposite. How did they get to be rich? by exploiting and killing people, that is how. Or possibly being a King's bumboy. I have some evil bankers in my family too,(just married in thank the Lord,) but I try to keep that to myself, as frankly I dont find people that made their money by raping and killing and exploiting anything to be proud of.

I had no idea that wearing socks with sandals equated with lack of sophistication and lower education, I must tell all those university graduates in Poland to never mix the two because Americans will be offended, oh my God! Now, Americans strolling to the McDonalds with no sandals, no socks and just bare feet is the height of class and sophisticated approach - the new and trendy and very hygienic too. Americans wearing sandals and no socks (sandals in 90% of cases costing no more than 2 - 5 dollars - you got to save every penny in poor USA) is the way we Polish must now be to be smart and sophisticated since college kids in USA do not ever wear socks with sandals, read up everyone in Poland, Americans are telling us their wisdom. I was okay with this fashion of ours but now after reading this American's post I feel like I am starting to hate my socks and sandals. My question to the thread's author: Is it still okay for us Polish to wear sandals (don't worry, I threw away those horrible socks, I want to be western just like you)?

Actually I am fluent in Polish and was born in Poland - I am merely pointing out that there is a huge difference between the immigrant Poles, at least those in the US and the Poles in Poland... I clearly stated this is a generalization - it does not apply to every single Polish lady in Chicago... I am stating what I PERSONALLY observed.

If migrant Polish ladies are bigger gossipers than their counterparts in Poland then it did not make you wonder why? How about they learned to be nasty gossipers from Americans and this is very true I observed that also, you are spot on with your comparison between both groups of Polish people but you forgot to ponder the reasons and you forgot to consider American cultural influence.

How can you make an assumption like that? I come from a wealthy family but we made our money through being frugal, saving, investing, and hard work. We never exploited or killed anyone. If anything, now we're the evil ones because instead of living it up on credit cards we paid for everything with cash and lived in a roach infested apartment till we were able to afford better.

Also, again this will be a generalization based on my own personal observations, but it appears to me that the Poles in Poland are infinitely more cultured and sophisticated than their counterparts in the US. It's like they get dumbed down when they come here.. Przepraszam Marek, ale naprawde, twoja Honda Civic z body kit i naklejkami nie wyglada zajebiscie'

That is different Adrian, you are American (I guess from your words), and fair play to your family for working hard. In the case of these old Euro families, trust me, it is different.

Anyone who is grasping at straws by boasting about having some wrinkly old "princess" in the family needs telling, frankly.

Ktosiu, wearing socks with sandals is extremely silly because sandals are intended for covering your feet by hot weather, so putting socks as well does not make any sense.

It should be said that only Polish men do this. I have never seen a Polish woman wearing socks with sandals.

I will never forget when my ex arrived to collect the kids wearing socks and sandals.
When I had finally stopped laughing and had wiped the tears from my eyes I asked if he was not worried about the fashion police pulling him over.....

for some reason he then got really upset with me....

Some of the food is a little boring, but maybe its like that because I eat it regularly...
some Poles have embraced materialism too easily and have forgotten or abandoned tradition and nation.

I wondered why the locals here in lower Silesia would wear Jeans with socks and sandals in the height of summer, then I discovered the mosquitoes and ticks.

Noting like a bit of tick born encephalitis to ruin the rest of your life. must admit ticks are the one thing i don't like about Poland.

yes you do have a point there. My son ended up in hospital with blood poisoning from that, in Poland.
If only his Polish auntie had dressed him in sandals and socks and long trousers!!

"dressed him in sandals and socks and long trousers!!" don't forget the insect repellent (i find Off! protection plus the best)

Please if you do come down to my neck of the woods and plan to walk anywhere that has longish grass in the summer keep the socks and jeans on.

Exactly, jam dougnats are not fried the same way anymore, the flour taste is too strong, they taste like szajse in most places. Gofry are no longer available in most places and those selling the szajse substitute are cheeky about it when confronted with dissatisfied customer as if Gofry never existed. Most cakes types are gone, many foods are not there anymore, yep it is becoming boring and it is fault of both Polish and foreign companies taking over pushing Polish local businesses aside and making their own rules but also it is stupid Polish attitude of not appreciating what Poland has to offer and wanting to change everything from old to new (new coming from richer countries), as if new was always better because it comes from a richer country - idiotic Polish thinking.

Hi Ktos,

I do agree with your last sentence, Poles are usually obsessed and fascinated with western world, they used to be super obsessed with US, but even working in US don't give you any good money, after you deduct all expenses there (with average lifestyle) you will be left with some pocket money to maybe cover your holidays on Cuba or Dominican Republic... As someone said in past, people who traveled and worked in US back in 70/80's even 90's made a little fortune, nowadays there is nothing really special about western world. If I would be going somewhere in future I would probably pick places like Uruguay in South America, they seems to be safe ( I know you can be shot on the road but this can happen everywhere now), and it's quite warm place to, with really friendly people...