Lack of human rights in Poland?

OK, I give up!

Depends what he was choosing between. Two D cell batteries in a pair of socks would not be my weapon of choice if the available choices included a Mossberg 500; however, if it was a choice between the batteries in socks and nothing, pass the batteries and I'll take my socks off.

That's the point. If the hooligan nutcase had to arm himself, why would he choose such a knife from the hundreds available at just about any hardware store?

No doubt Bolt can run pretty fast in wellington boots, but they would hardly be his footwear of choice.

Perhaps so he could, when he was caught that is, pretend the knife was just for peeling apples.

I can only think of one hardware store in central Warsaw and I live here. Even where a lot of them were drinking (Hard Rock Cafe, I have no idea why), I'd imagine that they just strolled into Zloty Tarasy and picked up the cheap knives at the smallish Carrefour there.

A man hacked off the head of Lee Rigby with a kitchen knife

telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10488529/Lee-Rigby-killers-drove-around-Woolwich-barracks-looking-for-soldiers-to-kill-court-hears.html

Beheading is a flesh wound to you, right?

I'm not an expert on buying knives in Warsaw, but the idea of buying one with a serrated edge seems pretty strange.

I'm sure most hypermarkets have a pretty good range of knives.

If these were an organised hooligan gang, how difficult would it have been for them to get hold of something like a stanley knife?

My serrated edge steak knives seem to do a pretty good job of cutting flesh that's tougher than that of humans.


There aren't any in central Warsaw; the closest you'll get is the Carrefour I've already mentioned.


At least from what I know of using Stanley knives, they'd be rubbish for stabbing somebody. Probably quite good for slashing but no good for stabbing.

Really? Looks more like a meat cleaver to me.

A man hacked off the head of Lee Rigby with a kitchen knife

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Where did you read that? According to the links posted here in this thread knives, brass knuckles and an axe were found on Lazio supporters, there's no mention of their hotel rooms.


LOL

*smh*

I understand the concern that a group responsibility has been applied here by justice system, something to avoid in general. Yet, we are dealing here with a bunch of football hooligans terrorizing the rest of us for years now and often causing significant damages to property, without any repercussions. I applaud police tactics to lock them all up and prevent them from seeing football game they are to attend if - like the Lazio case - they refuse to rid off bad apples from the traveling group. We know the scenario: they do damages, throw stones, fight and when Police arrives there are no witnesses, no ways to establish who did what. Police reply: ok angels, you are here for football game so none of you would see it. Fine with me.

What interests me is that with over a hundred and fifty arrested we would expect to see some serious damage somewhere.

I have yet to see any evidence of the Lazio fans 'terrorizing' Warsaw'.

With all the photographers and so on present where are the photos of this 'hooliganism'.

I suspect that the police find it easier to arrest and detain Italian football fans than far right independence day marchers.

How much damage was caused that day and how many were arrested?

You've nailed that one.

Thanks. It's pathetic.

The only damage I've heard the Italians caused was an upset waste-paper bin.

If anyone knows of any other damage/injuries caused, then please post it here.

Independence day march: burning rainbows, attack on squat, attack on Russian embassy = 72 arrests

Lazio fans: upset rubbish bin =153 arrests.

We might imagine that twice the arrests = twice the damage.

I don't trust the police in Poland. Take the incident in Gdynia where the police arrested and tried to blame Mexicans for their being subject to what amounted to a racial assault.

Are you out of your mind? Are you seriously calling for the policy to arrest people whose only crime is taking part in a march to celebrate the Independence of Poland? I think you should be getting out more and I would like to challenge your claim that you can speak Polish.


Why? Because they were Mexican involved? Two groups of drunks clashed and if the behavior of Mexican can be changed by their performance in front of the police and camera than your claim is simply laughable.


on what 600 fans?


on what 100 000 people? I won't comment more on you or I will be banned.

well.. I think there should be a third tier of European football for the eastern countries (except of Ukrainian teams, who atleast perform at a world class level)! third tier would go to Eastern european teams.. who are more famous not because of their games but of their fans who are not there for the game but for the prey...

I cant see any Polish team getting any bigger outside their own country..

Have you ever been in Warsaw? Do you know the independence march route? Are you defending criminals who are occupying squat?> What constitute an attack for you? I ask those qestion because I refuse any serious general debate with a dude who claims that he if would be stabbed in his guts he would just laugh it off.

Lets talk specific for a change.

I think it was mainly that it was more than twice as easy to arrest those Italians: the police had them outnumbered. With the neo-nazi parade, the police were badly outnumbered.

^ this would be some 4th tier I would propose then:

Left Wing Clubs

AS Livorno Calcio (Italy--and probably the most left-leaning on this list)
*Celtic F.C (Scotland--Irish nationalist, but Irish nationalism is generally leftist)
*AEK Athens (Greece)
*Barcelona (Spain)
*Eintracht Frankfurt (Germany)
*St Pauli (Germany)
*Athletic Bilbao (Spain)
*PFC Lokomotiv Sofia (Bulgaria)
*Feyenoord Rotterdam (Netherlands)
*U.C Sampdoria (Italy)
*Polonia Warszawa (Poland)
*Malmo FF (Sweden--ironically in Malmo, probably the most right-wing part of Sweden)*
Bohemians 1905 (Czech Republic)
*Hapoel Tel Aviv FC (Israel--their logo is the communist hammer and sickle)
*FC Arsenal Kyiv (Ukraine)
*Olympique de Marseilles (France)
*Besiktas (Turkey)
*Impact de Montreal (Canada--they wave Cuban and Che flags during matches)
*Seattle Sounders FC (USA--the singles most antifascist club in America)
U.S.D. Virtusvecomp Verona(Italy)
Vasco Da Gama(Brazil--Fought racism and won)
Athletic Club Omonoia Nicosia(Greece)
Sporting Toulon (France)
Bologna F.C. 1909 I(taly)
Portland Timbers(USA)
Standard de Liège (Belgium)

Right-wing/Fascist clubs
*Zenit St Petersburg (Russia-Most fascist and rightwing club on this list, virulently racist, they won't even let non-whites on the team and have admitted this publicly)

*S.S Lazio (Italy--tied with Zenit, at least, supporter wise)
*Rangers FC (Scotland)
*Spartak Moscow (Russia)
*Lokomotiv Moscow FC
*Real Madrid C.F (Spain)
*Red Star Belgrade (Serbia--Ironic, eh?)
*A.S Roma (Italy)
*LKS Lodz (Poland)
*Helsingborgs IF (Sweden)
*S.L Benfica (Portugal--Has notable left-wing firms though)*
Hamburg (Germany)
*Partizan (Serbia)
*Chelsea (England)
*Hellas Verona F.C. (Italy--This one is pretty fascist too)
*Sporting Lisbon (Portugal--They have white nationalist groups attending that beat up anyone of color in attendance)
*Millwall (England)
Atletico Madrid (Spain)
FC Twente (Holland)
Shamrock Rovers (Ireland)
Paris St Germain (France)
Racing Club (Argentina)

For Commies everything that do not agrees with them is fascism or Nazism, they try to fool unsuspected people you see. Who remember that Mussolini started as a Communist.

Likewise for Fascists, as witnessed on this forum by certain people who accuse anything that doesn't agree with them as "commie".


Nah, not really. There used to be the religious barrier - but not anymore.


Red Star are fascist? That's news to me...

Do you live in Poland...or in Warsaw? Defending your ONR scummie friends again, are you? Aha, perhaps they are freedom fighters...I missed that point.

Hardly. Try harder.


Would you like to say it to their face? Pm your name and address chef and I will help you to fulfill your dream.

Exactly. It should be the greater the threat/damage/disruption, the greater the police activity. The Warsaw police don't see things like that. For them, the easier it is to arrest people, then the greater the number they will arrest.

Maybe the Met should follow the tactics of their Warsaw counterparts. Zero tolerance for Wimbledon crowds, and just allow Millwall to police themselves. It would certainly make their jobs easier and more pleasant.

That could be the case, however, I can think of another reason too. My guess is they wanted to prevent greater trouble, a trouble that could end with someone dying.


Maybe the Warsaw police read newspapers or at least watch the news:

I'm not that interested in football and I don't follow football news but even I've heard about those Lazio/Italian stabbings. And all that happened in 2012 and 2013, not 20 years ago, or whatever. I don't know of anyone stabbed during the Independence marches. Do you?

Lazio fans are apparently notorious for racist chants too. They are no angels, guys.

What did they do in Warsaw then, Paulina, to merit 150+ arrests?

But nice to see you looking at evidence for a change, even if it isn't relevant to the case.

It's curious to learn what people have/haven't heard of, even those with no apparent interest in football.

Is it possible that the police had intelligence that there was going to be trouble in revenge for what happened in Rome a while ago, but they got it completely wrong?

For me, it's ridiculous that they're going to such extremes against foreigners yet completely failing to do anything about the problems within domestic football.

That's probably what happened. Overkill. If they wanted to prevent trouble all they had to do was stay with the Lazio fans. You can't arrest people for what you imagine they might do.


They are lazy. The foreigners (particularly Italians) were easy targets.

Btw my Grandad had a cushy job in WW2. Guarding POWs. (Italians).

Who, Lazio fans? As I wrote already this could be a preemptive measure taken by the police (as they knew what Lazio and Polish ultras are capable of). I don't mean the arrests themselves, since the police was attacked*, but the number of arrests.

*As I've read they've been arrested for attacking police officers and public disturbance. 149 of them have been released, 22 are still in custody.


What do you mean in this cheap shot? Can't you conduct a discussion in a normal manner, as I'm doing it?


It is relevant.


It's possible they had intelligence, but what did they got completely wrong?


I don't think it's ridiculous considereing the bad fame of Lazio fans.
In Poland during the Independence march things burn and in Italy fans are being stabbed by ultras.
I'm writing this to put things into perspective for you guys.
This doesn't mean I wouldn't want to be done more in Poland about Polish hools.


Looks like the police did - they followed them - and they got attacked.


Those "easy targets" stab people in Italy. There were knives found on them and... an axe, OK? o_O

I don't know if they're lazy or not, but to be honest, I find it hard to sympathize with kibole no matter whether they're from Poland or from Italy.

Maybe it's not that bad that they've rounded them up and arrested them when you realise that thanks to this none of them had the opportunity to use one of those knives or a freaking axe on people?