Importance of Religion in Poland

I understand why some people ask why don't we call God for Holy mother?
But why on earth do you come with that sentence?! :/

One can say Poland is a strongly religious country. What is good or bad religion?

ethics.org.au/living-ethics/good-religion-bad-religion

In an interview of 1991, Czesław Miłosz said:

Q: Chciałabym pana zapytać na temat Konrada. Pisał pan kiedyś o nim w Widzeniach nad zatoką San Francisco.

A: Konrad nie był filozofem. Nigdy nie chciał być filozofem. Wypracował swój własny kodeks moralny. Był to pisarz bardzo sceptyczny, bardzo gorzki, a jednak ciągle u niego jest ten jakiś imperatyw moralny, który, myślę, że się sprawdził w tym sensie, że dwudziesty wiek wykazał niebezpieczeństwa, które grożą, kiedy wartości moralne się relatywizuje, kiedy poświęcało się w imię jakiegoś wielkiego wspaniałego celu podstawowe rozróżnienie pomiędzy dobrem a złem. Cała rewolucja bolszewicka była wynikiem tego że uznawało się, że ponieważ cel jest tak wspaniały więc nie można mieć żadnych skrupułów w osiąganiu tego celu. Kłamstwo morderstwo, wszystko było dozwolone. Nasze doświadczenia z ustrojami totalistycznymi, z hitleryzmem, czy z komunizmem dowiodły, że dobro i zło to są rzeczy które są tak jak smak chleba; bez chleba nie można żyć. I to powiedziałbym dwudziesty wiek jest wielką rehabilitacją tych najprostszych pojęć.

Q: Czyli w czym człowiek powinien szukać oparcia?

A: Nie wiem. Wydaje mi się, że ta kwestia dobra i zła to jest wspólne wszystkim ludziom wierzącym i niewierzącym. Większość ludzi szuka podstawy w religii, aczkolwiek nierówno układają się te rzeczy w naszej części Europy i na zachodzie. Powiedziałbym, że następuje odchodzenie od religii. Nie tylko literatura i sztuka odeszły od religii, stosuje się to chyba do Europy zachodniej łącznie z Anglią, trochę inaczej jest w Ameryce, gdzie religia jest znacznie silniejsza, natomiast w Polsce religia jest duża siłą i można tylko zadawać pytanie na ile religijność ludzi zapobiega niektórym wynaturzeniom, które są jasnym dziedzictwem wychowania totalistycznego.

Q: Ano właśnie. Czy ludzie w naszym kraju są rzeczywiście wierzący, czy to nie jest bardzo zewnętrzne?

A: No tak. Pewien profesor amerykański określił Polskę jako kraj ludzi niewierzących ale praktykujących. Ja bym sformułował to inaczej, że Polska jest krajem ludzi praktykujących ale nie zastanawiających się dużo nad tym w co wierzą. To jest religia, która może okazać się mało odporna wobec nowoczesnego świata technologii, taka religia bez przemyśleń może okazać się dość bezbronna.

Translation: An American professor defined Poland as a country of non-believing but practicing people. I would formulate it in different words. Poland is the country of practicing people but not giving much thought to what they believe. This is a religion, which may turn out to be moderately resistant to modern technology, such religion, lacking reflection, can prove to be defenseless.

It is my observation that religion - the practice or church attendence or number of public holidays or size of churches in small towns or religion icons in houses etc. indicate that religion plays a larger part in Poland than religion does in Australia for example. The Catholic church was instrumental in "evolving" Poland away from communism. So maybe Poland (and members of this forum) have some value to add to the discussion as to what makes up good and bad religion. Maybe not?

Religion is seen as the cause of much hope and joy to many and is also blamed for many of the world problems. The word religion covers a lot.

In the view of PM, what are the characteristics of good and bad religion?

Merged: Religion in Poland

I noticed in Poland the big Sunday Church phenomena, poor people dressing up for church, people going to and from Church on a Sunday.

I even got tied up into Church/Christianity when my mother in law became ill, its massive in Poland.

I'm an Atheist so always felt a little out of place in such institutions but couldn't help feeling overwhelmed in others.

any thoughts?

I think it's often done out of a sense of duty and conscience cleansing. That's what I think.

moved from:


If you are a student you learn what there is to learn you don't challenge while learning basics, especially big no no is to challenge the dogma a clue lie in that name. What you mean there is more outspoken opinionated fools. Anyway devil is in details but basically it is as if some students were challenging Newtown's laws of motion or better still Theory of relativity. That is all and dandy but 99,999% of students are not on the level to do that. They can only voice their opinions or repeat what they heard.

So the lesson get busted by but ...but.. ITHINK that ...which is pointless. To challenge anything properly one needs to have skills to do it and such a knowledge students do not posses. They are just being cheeky and ignorant.

IF a priest said something along the lines no debating with them, he was right although it was a tactical mistake. He should have said instead OK so I understand that St Thomas of Aquin as well as St Augustine of Hippo, Thomas More and their works you know by heart and we can move to more complex issues.

Don't get me started about ingrate upstarts.


hmm a normal person that ask questions that aren't rhetorical ones and a one who is not biased.


It doesn't answer MY question. Meaning you're just jabbering away empty slogans you don't understand, spewing BS and an utter tripe. You are the one who has to live with it not me.


So what? Are they not Polish citizens? IF commie criminals have that right why would you discriminate against priests?

The thing you and the priests miss- religion is not physics. It's based on belief and because of that dogma is really secondary. If you don't capture people's heart, that's it. And let's be honest, even priests educated in all that have doubts and struggle with certain realities.

If the priests carry on that way people will drop classes andadd to the trend of church loosing parishioners.

Everybody was affected by PRL- why should it be an excuse for bishops? And even then the fact still remains that it pushes people away from the church.


I answered it few words down giving you example of Rydzyk. He is clearly meddling with politics.


You see we have something called the separation of state and churche. While the priest is allowed to have his views trying to influence the politics from ambona is theoretically a no no. It does annoy quite a lot of people, especially if they don't vote for the party the priesr wants.

So now tell me what is your explanation for the slow downfall of the church?

I don't think this is entailed in the separation of church and state

yes, they're teenagers, by definition they're cheeky and ignorant. so the wiser choice is to get too much in their face because they'll just reject it in a way that younger or older people won't.

talk to young people about how they remember religion in high school and then get back with us and tell us what a good idea that was

Exactly so no about of back and forth will make any difference as to whether or not they are believers or not. They are there to learn what is what.

The dogmas of faith are not that different from theory of relativity or any other scientific theory.
Those are not just pulled out of someone backside on a whim but haver been worked on for centuries on the ground of other works (thinkers, philosophers).

It all stands on the works of great minds some puny kid cannot compare with. So it is exactly as if some students would challenge Einstein's theories just because ....

Anyway we can merry go around with this so why don't you put it here what exactly was questioned.


So what? Are you concerned? An explanation is not an excuse if you cannot differentiate between those YOU have a problem.


Yes and have you seen the church making a political stand or have you seen bishops taking seats in the parliament?>Maybe there is a party financed and run by the clergy? No? So my question stand WTF are you buzzing about mindlessly?

Some individual priest that voice his opinions or views on politicks? So what? After all their people and Polish citizens too. If some Commie A-hole who oppressed people and now is getting is pension from the taxpayers is allowed to do anything in politicks even in KOD or what not, why a priest is not allowed to have a say? Totalitarian and discriminatory much?

There is no downfall of the church. I don't know what you mean.

That is what I said. Thanks for agreeing with me. It is what it is. Neither of us is in the position to do something about it.

So you agree that state mandated preaching at them is not a good idea for the church?

Marxism being spread like a cancer by the NGO's that is be promoted by the Liberals in Europe to poison the brains of the youth.

You know.......Satan's biggest lie of "if you're not hurting anyone else it is o.k. to do".

Thank you for taking part in this discussion. You clearly show with your behaviour what I mean.

tarnow.naszemiasto.pl/coraz-mniej-powolan-kaplanskich-w-tarnowie-tez-ale-i-tak-tu/ar/c1-7319691

This article show how callings for priesthood dropped. If this trend carries on soon there will be problem with parishes without a priests.

"Z danych GUS natomiast można wyczytać, że od początku lat dwutysięcznych regularnie spada odsetek udziału małżeństw wyznaniowych wśród zawieranych związków.

Spadek ten wynosi aż 10 proc. Z perspektywy Kościoła niekoniecznie pocieszające jest, że w pewnych stopniu odpowiada za to popularność rozwodów i ponownego wchodzenia w związek małżeński."

Okopress

You may think what you want but it seems church is getting weaker. And the trend is definitely downward.


And Catolicism is not being promoted? Funny. They have radio and TV, regular holiday connected to their message, classes in school few times a week, social norm...Seems like a pretty good network to me.

It is what it is. There is plenty of things and issues I don't like, so what. It could be good or bad. The problem is all system in Poland that comes straight from PRL and hasn't been changed much and in places it had been not necessary for the better.


Do you mean because I question your assumptions and ask you for some arguments you're unable to provide? Should I drop out of the class now?

No, because you:
- don't think there is any problem with the church position (how we can find causes for something that doesn't exist acording to you)

-find excuses for everything (students shouldn't have doubts and challenge anything because they should study it the way they do with physics and priests are under no obligation to actually pull students towards them)

-think bishops are influenced by PRL so we shouldn't criticise, point out mistakes or try to think of the way they could change
- don't seem to think that it pushes people away if a priest instead of preaching about religion tells them who to vote for.

We are speculating here of course but the church statistic would suggest less people care about the church and you didn't give any alternative as to why that is.

Listen it is not about me. It is about ability to debate. If you want to debate you need to put an argument forward not only list what I'm supposedly doing wrong. How is that relevant?, stack your arguments. Not slogans and opinions with a pinch of prejudice on the top.

So far you put one issue here:
- religion in school is bad because priests don't bend backwoods' for students near enough.. Do you know many schools in Poland or anywhere that actually do that?

School are schools and there no other way unless you into individual tutoring.
If someone claims that religion lessons in school put him off religion ,That is not even argument, is an excuse.

I disagree lesson of religion in schools puts people off religion, they are just not into it in the first place, Church attendance in Poland was always mostly a ritual and cultural thingy at least during the late PRL times. Those people or their children' just don't bother anymore to come and that is that.


Everybody and everything is influenced by PRL and post-communisms in Poland that is a given. Is that an excuse not that is a reality - you asked and I have answered. You somehow got it wrong and are whining about it. If you misunderstood me just ask me what I meant rather than jump to some weird conclusions.

Bishops are conformists, they conform to a mainstream culture which is PC and radical liberalism, Priests that are patriotic and right wing are getting scolded, silenced or even kicked out from the priesthood while priests who are lefties are pretty much left alone. Not to mention a homosexuals' lobby that is strong and kicking. There is connection between a homosexuals' priest, soviet mole and pedophile scandals'. Why do you think Bishops in Poland haven't even touched it? Many of them are just comprised in a one way or the other and some are just opportunists and cowards.

Good paragraph.
Their leader in Vatican is even worse.

Religion is school is bad because religion doesn't go too well with obligation like that. Plus the priests are not often capable of capturing the teenegers attention. While some teachers of other subjects struggle with it too the difference is noone expects a high school graduate to attend weekly reading club, believe and follow his teachers claims on how to live their lives and definately doesn't expect them to regularly donate money. Church does.

And while of course few students dropping classes doesn't affect the church in the slightest but it's just one of few things that together lower the effect church has on the society.

Our priest managed to get 8 students drop classes and more wanted to but listened to their parents and stayed. In one year. It wasn't enough in this case but if such trend continued it means less hours, lower pay...

And while I agree with you that a lot of people attended church without deep belief I think they still do. But even just that hurts the church. Less parishioners means less money, less influence


Seriously? I would say that they are conservative compared to the rest of society. Very much so. Recently talking about 'rainbow plague' for example. And if you were right and they are pleasing the general public how comes it's the complete opposite?

those are your preconception ,you see what you want to see not how the things really are, I believe only one bishop on Poland had guts to say what need to be said and society is behind him. Those who are leftie are pretty much in minority.

So in my case it's only my perception , but with you it's the devine truth? Lmao

If that is true then why have you fallen away from the church ?
All that didn't seem to be enough for your faith either.
You can't debate or argue your way to heaven and you know that.
Catholicism saved Poland's culture and now you turn your back on it.
It is just so "convenient" to ignore spirituality in our cultures and daily life in this busy day and age.
People today are caught up in the tyranny of the urgent.
And to try and make an Unbeliever understand spirituality is a waste of time.
That's why scriptures says: Mathew 10:14-15
"If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town". I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the Day Judgment than for that town.

Now replace the word 'town' with Polish Forums.

If want to be independent Poles needs to have their own national Christian Church. In case of Poland that should be Polish Catholic Church. Remember, Vatican always (!) have its own agenda. That first. Second is partnership with western Europeans and USA. Poland? Yes, prayers goes to Poland.

Johnny- I don't care about quotes from Bible. For you it's important, for me it's just a book

And I moved away from the church because first I saw the hypocrisy and then I started to disagree with certain things to finally realise I don't believe in God.

I have to agree with you here and when Christians start quoting from the bible, I find that just as creepy as when Muslims start quoting from the koran.....

Not believing in God in no way negates the benefits of teaching kids morality. That is what religion in schools was all about. Now, that it's gone and nothing is offered in its place, kids go stupid and all they do is try to be influencers on "social media", and do anything for attention. Soft form of prostitution and pornography included.

Kids should be taught morality, that it is not happening in Western schools is a disgrace.
But it has nothing to do with religion.

I was just trying to show you what is says about God's inspired words being silly to the Un Believers.
It is just as silly to me how a person could possibly go through their life without having any Faith.
I honestly do not understand that.


And how many times have I told you that every man on earth is a sinner so what hypocrisy ?
Read between the lines girl.
You are not responsible for the hypocrites souls, only your own.


Oh, so you thought you were smarter then God which would make you your own god.
I disagree with certain things too but I don't let them destroy my Faith as an excuse to pretend that I am in charge.

True, but if I see hypocrisy in someone who tries to preach me it makes their words fake. Besides, it was only the first step.


How can I think I'm smarter from something that I don't believe exists?

But anyway, my own attitude towards God and church doesn't affect the position of religion in Poland at all