Grass is always greener? Poland experience.

I am not going to argue with you. but you are wrong. I don't need to spend any time on a realtors site. I know Vancouver quite well in person.

Signal maybe you are not aware Poland joined the EU in 2004, intergrating the Euro will cause Poland an immediate inflation of 8-14%, as it did in all other EU countries who have adopted the Euro ( short term gain )

Should bring more growth - Why?

More stability - 100% NO

Greater trade - Why?

An increase to property values as investment pours in - an increase to real estate due to the domestic market allignment of PLN/Euro ( inflation).

As investment pours in - When I drove into my office in Warsaw this morning I believed the investment had already arrived, when I look at unfinished building sites, for sale signs on the windows of apartments/flats the shops closing down. I am wondering if something may have peaked...


Would you like your daughter to be the only one child in your new Warsaw Osiedle that goes to state school.

Don't forget your private medical insurance for the family 1,000 - 1,200 PLN per month, then there is the insurance for your two cars you shipped over from Canada at 100% as you have no discount bonuses. OC/AC on your two jeeps will run you at 10/12 % value ( Polish value) of each car.


Look at the news in Poland 'signal' Construction and civil engineering companies have been dropping like flies over the last 6-9 months.

Signal, I am getting your picture now, either you or your wife which ever one of you is Polish( I guess your wife ) is ready to go back home. Its always the


that gets you in the end.

I am having a little fun with you, which ever decision you make I wish you success, just remember the immortal words of Lord Robert Baden-Powell of Gilwell.

I hope so, my salary is linked to inflation and a 8-14% jump would certainly be welcome, especially as my mortgage costs would tumble too using EUR interest rates rather than PLN.


Seems to be.

Relying on family is certainly one way to end up bitter and jaded here.

I doubt you will see in your pay packet bud normally there is a transitional period when both PLN/EURO can be used normally what I have witnessed in other countries is the Horeca industry use this transition to increase prices, also real estate sellers do the same, so the inflation is a little like the current economic climate. Everyone knows and feels the increase/decrease although the government figures don't reflect.

Maybe ' signal ' was inspired by this short movie about Poland.

signal

You're right in 100%, I won't argue with you :)


You know what they say - wódka is the best translator ;)


We don't complain about everything. Every Pole has some SPECIALTIES. Some of them we serve all the time like 'Institution of Catholic Church in Poland' (but not Catholicism itself) or "politics" and some are just temporary like dogs pooping on sidewalks (You know... snow melts after winter...and first "winter flowers" start to show...) The trick is not to be drugged into discussion.

I have to admit I have different picture in my mind when I hear "mension".

Nice thread. Good luck with all those people who will try to convince you that you're not right.

Wait until you move here, you WILL find teaching your only option. No matter what your big ideas are, the reality is different.

They deserve the money? Based on what? WW2 and the commie era? Playing the world's saddest song on the world's smallest violin... . As if anybody outside of Poland cares - and I don't mean that in a derogatory way.


Then don't take the money/ investments, and let's see what happens.

Not my case. Since i moved to Krakow i have manage to create in less than a year what i never managed to do in Germany in 4.

It really depends how motivated you are. Moving to a different country is difficult per se. Poland has its problems but the opportunities are endless. My experiences is that polish then to be negative (understandable with their recent past) and expect way to much from the government. They want to have everything solved sitting in their couch living mediocre lives. Good thing is that I see this way of thinking evolving and you can cleary see the energy flowing on cities like Krakow and Wroclaw. (I am just familiar with those 2, might be the same on others)

To the OP, let me know if you ever come to Poland. I moved more than a year ago with exactly your same ideas and I have managed to accomplish way more than expected. I'm now a founder of a successful startup selling IT banking services to the middle east and future can be brighter at this moment for us.

To add to the discusssion here are a couple of articles just about what's going on krakow:

venturevillage.eu/why-polands-ready-to-hit-the-tech-big-time
zdnet.com/is-poland-the-best-place-to-start-your-start-up-7000007407/
zdnet.com/why-google-set-up-its-r-and-d-facility-in-krakow-7000009463/
venturevillage.eu/krakow-intro-startup-safary

This two pages will help u to keep u informed:

krakowit.pbworks.com/w/page/5507981/FrontPage
hive53.com

If somebody stills says u can only teach english here is well sadly just because they don't know how to do anything else besides teaching english.

You really are one of the rarities though. I too have my own business here in the field of corporate entertainment and have worked hard to build it. I couldn't have done it though without the help of my polish wife. There are opportunities here but you need to work harder than most places to take advantage of them.

I provided evidence. where is yours. I am in Vancouver now and live here everyday. not the "north shore".. Vancouver itself. And when I write the 15,781 ZLT check in 2 days for my small space for housing, I will remember how "wrong" I am.


Here is a source that contradicts what you are saying. dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2043004/Lifestyle-better- Poland-UK-Less-crime-violence--cheaper-too.html

More evidence.


You cant on one hand tell me the infrastructure and roads are not done and many years off and then say first mover advantage is over. That doesnt compute. free flow and physical access improvements are part of the requirement for the growth and expansion. It doesnt take an MBA to see that an increase in commerce and services will boom if you could take a truck loaded with goods quickly on a non stop on a good highway from Warsaw to Berlin instead of a two lane suicide lottery. More people would travel between cities, holiday destinations would become a reality. Business like Amazon.PL could become a reality. I could go on for hours. All of this requires the infrastructure, that you admit, and I agree is not done. Suddenly, the Polish air conditioning installer /repairman or a simple roofer can expand his circle of service to be much much larger as he can reasonably drive further away efficiently and reach those new customers with his better service or product.


removing the barrier and complication of currency fluctuation increases commerce and trade.


unified currency provides dilution of country or region specific problems making the eurozone, and in this case Poland more stable financially and attractive to investment by foreigners and companies. more investment = good. just to be clear.


Have you ever been shopping? Have you ever done a transaction with a company in 2 currencies? Have you ever had to negotiate the float? Different currencies are a complication, inhibiter and risk factor in all transactions.


not even close. its just a pause as the result of the global economic crisis and the recession in the rest of Europe.


this is just a cost. and a discretionary one. drive a cheap car if its a problem. Minimum insurance cost for a normal car in Vancouver is around 6,000 ZLT per year. so if your Jeep is worth about $20k USD the cost is the same.


I actually suspect it would be higher. 8 - 14% inflation increase for that growth and advantage would be absorbed and offset by the increased growth. Of course this is not the case if you are sitting on your couch. USA inflation rate is 1.6% and the country is a disaster economically and with jobs. huge debt, etc . inflation rate is only one of many factors in economic health.


therefore you are looking for buying opportunities you can maintain and improve now until that increase takes place right? ;) *wink


seems a shame that you CHOOSE to limit yourself, especially when you can have a gigabit internet connection. Billion dollar companies started with far less.


thank you for those resources! glad your experience has been good.

So far the only real wisdom I see that makes any sense is to be cautious of the administrative differences that may not work on common sense or practical business rules. This however is really only a language barrier issue. Once you learn and understand the rules they want you to operate within, go nuts!

did this dude come here for advice and then just start arguing with everyone or what?

Go to Poland mofo, live it, have it, make your money...and then come back and tell us all about it. Before that youre just a back seat driver with an attitude.

no i came here asking for people to poke holes in my ideas and criticize my pros and cons. Your attitude speaks volumes about yourself but says nothing about Poland.

The adoption of the Euro will have the opposite effect, Poland will loose one of its USP's


If Poland adopts the Euro before the next general election, PO will lose the election. The vast majority of Poles and business owners in Poland are against Poland adopting the Euro myself included.


I base the inflation on when the Netherlands and Spain adopted the Euro I happened to be in both countries at the time of adoption.


I don't want any more real estate in Poland as there is no liquidity, although I will buy land with a view to long term hold- 10 + years.,Only if the price is fair.

signal, I don't want to burst your bubble Poland is wonderful country to live in and many of its people are pragmatic, I see the picture a little less rosier than you do. Just be prepared and get a little Polish, if you find it difficult at least fake being a victim of Pessimism, life will be a lot less expensive for you in PL.

As I mentioned earlier, all the best with the move, if you do have any questions there are a bunch of cool people on PF that live or have lived in Poland, who may be able to assist you. ( Before you begin a spat WB is one of them)

No one has even mentioned the weather.

Weather is indeed a thing to consider. I do like it better than London or Hamburg (Where i use to live), and the OP lives in Canada so i am sure he will not have any problem with the weather. ;) but if somebody is expecting sunny californian days all year around this is not the place to be.

The only part so far that i find irritating from krakow is the pollution problem specially during winter. There is a lot of noise and media pressure on the issue so I really hope that things will improve in the next years.

The weather was one of the reasons I chose to move to Poland. The weather here is great. Four proper seasons, but not too extreme at either end.

I am enjoying the winter up here. Looking forward to a mild summer and cooler Spring and Fall seasons.

Something for most everyone here, except maybe a dessert.

There is one.Africa Korps trained there before going to Africa.

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Signal - have you visited Poland at all? Is your child of school age?

There you go then!

100% percent agree, Krakow is also one of the top most polluted cities through out Europe.
Anyways, coming from Denmark it's always sunny here in Krakow, in general beautiful wheather IMO.

phtoa, I have to mention I really don't quite understand all the fuss by foreigners about Krakow, ok it has the most well preserved Stare miasto in Poland and the Wawel castle, Kazimierz is nice and some parts of Debniki. If you are a beer beast then of course you have the bars and a few fair-good restaurants.

When you compare Warsaw and Krakow for culture WAW beats KRK hands down,superior museums, superior art scene, superior theater, superior restaurants and much better quality of life for the family. Ok so KRK is cheaper, but s that a reason to live there only?

This


No need to talk about this topic anymore!

I am sure your right on this one.
But buddy, I'm barely 20 years old, making a good salary in Krakow, there you have the reason why I live here. I still haven't reached the age where cultural stuff/family life is more important to me then bars/fun/women.

I hope you understand my perspective.

Anyways, if someone where to match/increase my salary in Warsaw, I really wouldn't mind moving, but salaries offered from companies in Warsaw (from my experience) are simply quiet alot lower than the one I have here.

Even all that is crap comapred to the west though. There is not much really in terms of culture in Poland

I lived many years in London and have travelled extensively through out the world, without getting back to London a few times a year to recharge, I would simple go to root. The nice thing about Warsaw is everything is available more or less and importantly there is accessibility, if I have friends coming into town it is possible to get tickets for all, without having to plan months in advance or being financially raped. As for culture Warsaw is Vibrant its turning into a very cosmopolitan city.


Good on you, enjoy it all while you can - No regrets !

The axiom of the homesick and unobservant. Just because you don't notice it, or it doesn't appeal to you, that doesn't disqualify it as culture. There is a thousand years of culture in Poland, layered and modified and layered against each other, and anyone interested can find it, even if they don't participate. Putting Poland's culture on a scale against other cultures is a false weight; and coming from Wales, which let's be honest, isn't considered the hub of British civilization itself, you should recognize the truth in that.

jasondmzk


Warsaw is nice, at least i really have enjoyed the times i have been there but currently krakow is blooming as an IT Center and that's where i need to be. The Quality of life here is also pretty good there is always something interesting to do. Also here you are pretty close the Tatras and I'm a mountain freak.

I guess someday when things are more stable i would give Warsaw a try.


Definition of Culture is very subjective, but after Hamburg Krakow has way more cultural events that interest me.

Ouch we are going to have to rename you the 'Stinging nettle' :-) Jason.

Much of that culture was destroyed between 1935 and 1989, sadly.