Free Poland Health Care - Paying minimal to no Zus

No you do not read that correctly. You see, some people work hard enough to buy cars, and those cars have things called "registration plates" (or "license plates" if one is American). While we can understand that you are less than familiar with such things, it is is somewhat bizarre that you appear to have never even heard of them.

I see German plates all over Wrocław. If they open a Greek restaurant, I'll be seeing broken ones in the bins outside.

I'm still trying to work out why Fuzzy is trying so hard to portray Poland as being a hive of poor, broken down people who never travel.

Keep working it out, plenty of others on here are more than willing to help you along.

And while you're at it, don't think you can use this as a diversion to ignore the rest of my post. The numbers are there. Feel free to comment.

But why? What are you trying to achieve, except making it obviously clear to those of us in Poland that you were not one of the successes here?

This whole "POLAND IS SO POOR" thing just seems to be a consequence of having failed in Poland, nothing else.


All they've done is show us why Americans get absolutely screwed for healthcare if those numbers are real. Explains why they're so keen to provide "preventative medicine" if a vast amount of cash is flowing into their pockets for doing so!

What are you talking about? How are Americans getting "absolutely screwed"?

We should probably start this off by saying that you pulled "2/5" out of your Scotish a$$. Par for the course.


you've completely lost me. this obviously isn't your bag.

Given the amounts that they have to pay and the eyewatering bills that they run up, it's safe to say that America really has an healthcare industry that revolves around extracting as much money as possible from the client. Preventative medicine my ass.


I suggest you look at the actual hard data and not some imaginary comparison that involves you comparing some stupid in-laws with middle management America.

Let's see. Minimum wage in Poland per year is $7732.

In America? A mere $15,080.

Hardly a much richer country, is it?

I think it's safe to say that your Poland bears no relation to the real Poland. Just because people live in smaller accommodation and drive smaller cars doesn't actually make them poorer, you know?

What "eyewatering bills" do you speak of, man? Did you not read my post a few days ago where I laid out, in detail, what the average health insurance policy in the USA provides you with and the copay system that goes with it? it was in response to YOUR post, I'm quite sure you didn't miss it. I can provide you with the info again if you'd like.

So NO, it's certainly not "safe to say" when you have the facts, facts of which you either don't have or choose to ignore. Time and time again, you prove to have absolutely no concept of the American health care industry yet you just can't help yourself but to make up completely fabricated data and statistics about the USA and hope people believe it.


Quit the diversions. What the minimum wage is between Poland and the USA is completely off topic. We are discussing how much doctors in the USA earn vs. Polish doctors. Why? Because you fabricated some completely bull$hit data and I gladly provided PF with the facts. That is all I'm concerned about here.

Doctors are loaded in the USA and we pay very little to have them at our disposal.

Really?


/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States

Fully referenced, too. You pay very little? Bullshit. You pay a lot more than most countries, yet you still don't even have universal health care.

And -


Says it all, really.

yes, we do.


it says nothing. the numbers you posted do not equate to "an American pays a lot for medical coverage".

I know all you're armed with is Wikipedia and whatever other mung you manage to dig up on the Google, but i'd suggest you go back and read my post about what we pay for health insurance here, at this point I'm sure you read it (but don't know why you choose to ignore it).

Americans receive medical coverage either through their employer or from state/federal government.

Any average paying job at a reputable company pays for the majority of your health insurance premium. To give you an idea, before I left for Poland I was working for a mid sized company, it was about 1,000 employees at the time, and I paid $25/month for health insurance, fully covered, soup to nuts, with the copay system I illustrated for you in that post. $25/month for american health care? Yes, please.

If you have a federal job, you don't pay anything and are fully covered, plus a pension which is fully vested after 20 years.

If you have a state job, how much you pay varies state to state, just like city to city varies, but it's still minimal. State/city jobs also come with pensions which fully vest anywhere from 20-30 years of service.

Why is our government health care spending high? Mostly Medicare and Medicaid, two tax funded programs that make sure that the poor and the old are taken care of using state of the art facilities and top notch doctors and nurses. You get what you pay for, and I'd say that's money well spent.

Oh, I almost forgot: "2/5" is a completely fabricated number invented by Delphiandomine and all this crap you're reading now is him trying to save face, only what he's writing is him kicking himself in the face. With golf shoes on.

ZUS is the worst thing that could ever happen to anyone. One of the reasons to leave the country for good...We hate it.

Hardly. The quoted article gives hard numbers, and these numbers show that America is paying an exceptional amount of money for healthcare compared to comparable nations.


It equates just fine. That money that your company pays? That's coming out of your collective pockets.

Deductibles designed to discourage you from accessing health care, insurance companies that find any excuse to not pay and even insured patients getting overcharged for treatment just to increase the profits of the health care sector? Oh yes. The "fully covered" part is nice, until you realise that they find endless ways to get out of actually providing such cover.

Sorry, but all you had was some vague promise to provide such health care.

We'll see how long it takes for that to be scrapped in light of the massive debts that America has.


Except they aren't getting the care that they need. Infant mortality is quite high compared to comparable nations, life expectancy is nowhere near as high as it could be and the system is riddled with inefficient bureaucracy that rewards doctors for doing things quickly. Paying something like 30% in administration costs is frankly insane.


Do I really have to start quoting? Ah, let's go...




Sounds like a barrel of laughs, doesn't it?

Anyway, if you can't see that the Government paying means that you're paying, there's no hope for you.

And a rich guy who just bought a Porsche paid more for it than the school teacher that just bought a Toyota Camry.

Oh, and there's a reason why people come to the USA for medical school, why we have some of the best universities in the world, and there's a reason why the USA ranks #1 in emergency medical care.....because we have amazing doctors that work in amazing facilities and guess what, it costs a lot of money. We also have a very strong military and guess what, that costs a few schmeckles as well. Do Americans have access to great health care with all that said? Yep. Do they pay very little to nothing for their health insurance premiums? Yep. Are they covered till they die after the age of 65? Yep.

What the hell is your point man?


No, it comes out of the company's pocket because they're earning tons of money. What are you suggesting they do differently? Pay us more instead so we can pay our premium on our own and deal with all the paperwork, rather than having their HR department take care of it? Maybe we should I'd rather let the company do the leg work, people that are trained and have years of experience working with insurance companies, and just pay my tiny fee every month for all that service. You also get additional discounts when you go through the company like special rates on gym memberships.


A $20 deductible is going to "discourage" someone from going to the doctor and getting treatment? Let me answer that because I live here......no, it doesn't.


oooh you'd love that, wouldn't you. hahaha, you want America to suck so bad......


It "sounds like" two things:

1) Another pathetic attempt at a diversion. You claim Polish doctors earn "2/5" what American doctors earn, I point out how terribly false that is, and you respond to it with random posts about the American health care system? Swwwwwwiiiiing and a miss. Don't think it went unnoticed.

2) You're copying and pasting stuff you have absolutely no understanding of. That's obvious. You thought that last passage was some big criticism of the health care system here and it surely is not. If you lived and worked here, you'd see how ridiculous that post was.

The question now is just how stupid do you want to look. I'd suggest cutting your loses and moving on to another thread. You know, like you normally do when I expose how full of $hit you are.

I think you're incredibly naive if you think that the cost to you is only what you pay in premiums each month. The figures talk for themselves - you have a massively bloated healthcare sector that simply doesn't excel when it comes to care. Why is your infant mortality rate so poor? Why is your average life expectancy so low? Yet - you pay a fortune for it.


The point is that you're paying more and receiving less than many others.

And for the millions who have no HR department to take care of it?


But the hassle of trying to get the insurance company to actually pay up might discourage you, especially with hospitals being proactive about receiving payment.


It must suck when you pay more and receive worse care. No bones about it.


Let's be honest for a minute Fuzzy. You come on here for years, posting rants about how better America is - but really, it's not. You're just deluding yourself because you failed miserably in Poland - all your posts about "stinking trams, small flats and no money" are exactly what you lived here. You're hell bent on telling us all how great America is, because quite honestly - you're not good enough to succeed anywhere else.

Meanwhile, I think I'll go home soon, I'll drive home and perhaps schedule a nice private healthcare appointment that won't be at the mercy of private insurance companies.

i read the whole post and it's just so completely obvious that you have NO concept of what life is like here in any sense, especially the health care system, that i'm not even going to explain anything further. it's just not worth my time and it's embarrassing reading any more of this.


Inevitable. The same BS you come out with every time, hoping to save some face by resorting to personal attacks. off topic, uncalled for, and completely false. it's the equivalent to school kids fighting over something and when the one loses, with nothing else left to do but accept defeat, he says, "well you smell so neeeaaahhh!"

So in the spirit of your style of debate, and in regards to your "2/5" comment, I respond with, "liar, liar pants on fire."

Let's see - you pay more and have worse care than many other countries. Your doctors, although highly paid...kill more infants than Poland.

The latest figures for 2011 tell us this very interesting statistic -

(deaths per 1000 births, averaged from 2005-2010)

Poland - 6.06United States - 6.81

Sorry, but your healthcare kills more children than Poland's. $200,000 a year and can't even do simple things to save children's lives. How completely overpaid and incompetent.

That sums it up, Delphian. I wish all Americans were ashamed of these facts and wanted to work toward improving health care over here.

I'm actually quite shocked as to how poor it really is - the system seems to be full of highly paid people who exist to fleece the consumer as much as possible. The fact that they've managed to convince both liberals and conservatives that their system is great says it all - but it's hard to call any system great that has such a terrible infant mortality rate. It seems that those that can afford truly excellent health care will get it - but those relying on insurance companies will always end up worse off.

Heck, Fuzzy - if your system is so great, why does the CUBAN system kill less infants than your own?

Get your head of the sand and realise that paying doctors $200,000 a year doesn't make them good doctors.

This is why doctors need to be motivated by a higher calling than just how much money they can earn being doctors.

I am not arguing whether American doctors are worth $200,000 a year or not. Not the topic of conversation. Now you're expressing your opinions.

I commented on your terrible inaccuracies. That's how this got started.

No, Polish doctors do NOT make 2/5 of what American doctors make, contrary to what you were trying to convince others of (and regardless to whether they're worth it or not).

Can you please point to a web page that gives the details about this?

Hi there,

It is all pretty simple, it turns out.

What you need is to get i touch with whatever organization in the UK hold your National Insurance Record and ask them to be issued an S1 form, which is a doc acknowledging 2 things, that you do pay your NI and that you change you fixed abode to a Polish one.

If you could ask some Poles to explore it a bit further for you, that is the relevant number: +48 22 582 84 30 (alternatively the last two numbers 33 or 34).

Finding the right number took me an hour or so, but once I called them, they were knowledgeable and helpful. Way better than surfing the net.

BTW, in Polish the doc is called DOKUMENT PRZENOŚNY S1

Merged: Is it good or bad?????

Hello ! i wonder if it is good to get a private healthcare and insurance as a benefits from my employer and in this case who will pay ZUS ?? it will be deducated from my gross salary or not?

You will pay ZUS whether or not you get private healthcare. If you feel you're likely to fall ill, then yes, it's worth it. Otherwise a visit to the doctor if you need it (and as a foreigner you'll do it this way ZUS or not; Poles do too) will cost only 100zl.

question please, If I am dual citizen ..... and Polish citizen can I avoid paying the zus?

Being Polish, foreigner or anything in-betwwen is completely irrelevant. Of course, you can choose not to pay but if something happens, don't complain! 6 years ago, I had to have a big operation (because of cancer) and I was happy to have everything for free at (public) hospital. I have a private insurance program, do everything ambulatory private but in case of something big, I am "happy" to be able to use the public service. This summer, for a control as per Polish protocole, I shall be administered a medecine (Thyrogen) that costs ... 6,500 zl and thanks to my NFZ coverage, it'll be for free.

Not having NFZ (/2US) can be suicidal. If something happens, what do you do if you have no money??? What about if you need surgery, if you catch a serious illness, if you have an accident ... and need to be hospitalized?

Sorry but having no public insurance just to save a few hundreds of ZL is pure stupidity.

But it is not "a few hundred zlotys" though, is it?

The last time I checked, for a small business it is 1,400 zl a month - a ridiculous amount of money for a small operation to cough up, irrespective of how profitably that business is operating.

So ZUS will now have to somehow carry on, without being able to thieve from Dougpol Mansions any more.

As Jon said, 100 zl for a visit is the way to go, and (sorry about your illness) if I develop cancer, then it's back to base in the UK to bunker down. Of course if you are American then..."Houston.................."

@Dougpol: sorry, I was concerned about NFZ only and not about the whole ZUS. Regarding ZUS as paid by small companies, it is sure a lot and also completely "stupid" as not taking care of monthly income. I understand that it is at least 900 ZL/month and I know a number of individual companies (including teachers) barely making 2,000 a month and therefore it's rough.

I believe that if companies do not pay ZUS, they violate tax laws and therefore in case of a control, they are stuck.

Besides, paying ZUS entitles to NFZ and believe me, in case of serious health problems, such as an operation, an accident, a long term disease ... it is really worthwhile. Just my situation, this summer for my control at hospital, 6,500 for 2 shots of Thyrogen, + 4 days at hospital, + "jod 131" + 2 scintigraphies and thanks to NFZ (because I am covered), I shall pay NOTHING. It should cost, something like minimum 8,500 and sorry, but I cannot pay.

I know insurance and tax always seem too expensive but when a big problem occurs, people are happy to benefit from them ;)

@Dougpol: ps: athough in Poland, it's still long way from the West but in my case, I cannot complain, I had not choice to go elsewhere since since I have (State and private) insurance only in Poland.

Hey ya'all;

Since ya folks are talking about ZUS and taxes, I thought I should ask. I read the thread but I still didn't get my answer. Do all full time employees need to pay ZUS or there is a way around it. Assuming I have private health insurance and am a foreigner; paying towards public health insurance and social pension system seems "weird" to me since I am not going to use the services.

@MM! : if you have work contract, your employer shall deduct ZUS tax no matter what, you have no choice. Sorry, but it is not like at the supermarket where you can choose what you want. As to "not" needing it, don't talk too fast since in case of an accident or a serious operation (which I don't wish you of course but we don't know what life can bring us) you'll be thankful to be treated in the public system (private system is very small and - normally - don't provide big things).

@MM!: ps: private hospitals in Poland can be counted on the fingers of both hands, are small and if case of big operations are not equiped and therefore, even if you don't use public health for ambulatory treatments (my case since I don't want to be on waiting lists for several months, even more, I heard from a dentist a few months ago that in order to have one's teeth cleaned under the NFZ system, there was a 2-year waiting list in Warsaw ;)), in case of a hospitalization, you'll be thankful to be able to use public hospitals (in case you don't have NFZ, it'll cost you an arm and a leg).

Conclusion is easy: NFZ/ZUS is necessary when in Poland.