Poland's expats' colonial mentality?

Attacking it how? I'm not saying foreigners don't attack these things but I am curious as to how you perceive these attacks are carried out.

What Polonius doesn't understand is that the Constitution itself guarantees a secular Poland that is built on 1000 years of Polish history.

He also makes the usual hysterical claim that telling the truth about the Church is somehow attacking it.

It is absolutely not true. I live on the outskirts of the expat community and have many of them as my customers. They are all happy to be here and enjoy Poland hugely.

And like I posted earlier- the only person that didn't like it was an American from Texas who whined the whole year she was here. But luckily for us her husband was involved in fracking and they pulled out.

The only example of Neo-colonialism in modern Poland, was the North American who was very nearly voted as the President/Prime minister of Poland in the early nineties.

really? so you could say that Des actually missed the point of Polonius' because he was actually talking about expats in Poland- then Des said he was correct because of the Brits on this forum.

huh?

so I am actually not of the mark but you trying to make me look like I know nothing is quite pathetic, really.

In Cieszyn. I still remember the hassle on the border with me not speaking any word of Polish :)

But you see, hmm... How to put it... It isn't exactly the same.
Westerners and Americans (probably Westerns more), from what I see, are a bit different breed of expats than... everybody else lol
Even the way you are called reflects that. You are called expats. Others are called immigrants lol
Poles in the UK aren't called expats. They're called immigrants. In Poland you're called expats. The Vietnamese are called immigrants.
And your... I don't know how to call it... attitude, I guess... is different. You look down on Poles and Poland (of course not everybody). I've read both PF and a forum of Russians living in Poland. They criticise things too and can be really irritating but you can feel the difference. Also, I didn't understand what Russians were trying to say to Poles about people from the West until I discovered this forum. When you travel to Western countries everybody is polite and smiling lol I guess only on the internet one gets to know what you guys really think.

Maybe you even don't realise this. You quite often look down on us, our country and the way we live. Some Poles quite often look down on their Eastern neighbours too. That's just how it is.

You won't see me complaining everyday about it on PF but that's how I often viewed this forum and how I often felt here. Normally I wouldn't say this either but since this thread is about this - one of the people that was really getting on my nerves in this respect was pip ("newpip" nowadays, I guess?) lol And some others too.

Well, I never said that you know nothing, just that you don't know much. I was wrong in this case - big deal I'm not perfect.

Generally I don't mind your rants cause sometimes you are right but more often then not you are not.
However of late you stated sprouting a really crappy and bigoted rubbish and I would say that your double standards are really pathetic not my slight error here.

If we are to judge Poland by what gets written in Polish Forums, is this any great surprise?

What are you talking about?

That is interesting and your whole post was good food for thought.
I think I know what you're talking about and it is one of the reasons I limit the "expats" I actually spend time with.


Is there a difference between an expat and an immigrant in your understanding? I thought there was but I could be wrong.


Like what kind of things do you think or have you observed foreigners look down on?

Here's one sort of thing I find is more common among Poles than others that I've met; the ready willingness to screw over somebody else for the smallest of gains.

I was in the supermarket the other day weighing some things and couldn't locate the icon/picture for one thing. I looked and looked and the old guy behind me (which in Poland means he was actually trying to get between me and the scale) started telling me it was per piece and not per weight. I shrugged and figured he must be right otherwise I'd have found the silly picture by that time. As I left to go check, I heard him tell another old guy how he f*cked over some foreigner and told him his stuff was per piece and they both cackled like they really enjoyed that. He was actually right, it was per piece and he looked genuinely disappointed when I thanked him and told him he was right.

In your opinion, is it justifiable to look down on that kind of behavior even a little bit or am I just being judgmental and arrogant for not embracing that?

What do "expats" look down on that they should just accept or not worry about?

Anyways, I don't want to end on a sour note so let me just say I feel what you wrote previously and think I more or less agree when I apply my own experiences but I am wondering what you specifically meant and your own experiences.

That those claiming to represent Poland on Polish Forums are frequently anti-semitic, racist and plain dumb. Of course, I look down on such people.

Any examples? Cause so far its sounds like yet another one blanket statement.
you looking down on people cause you are a snob and that the reason enough.

'Any examples?' That's a dumb statement in itself, akin to asking for samples to prove that water is wet. If looking down on petty-minded, anti-semitic morons makes me a 'snob', then so be it.

LAWL..Bro that aint just Polish.
Though I would think it a holdover from time in the eastern bloc than particular to Poland alone;
to be fair getting one on the 'foreign' person is EVERYwhere.

I have lived in tourist towns (VA Beach, SanFran, and all of Sonoma Co can be that way) and all 'outsiders' get gouged. Same for Mexico unless unless one of the darker , more fluent speakers was with us.

US states will take advantage of the n00b from other State or different region. In rural areas fooling and fleecing City Slickers and Carpet Baggers is an art form. And we all know how bad somone straight off the Turnip Truck is gonna fare in NY or LA or Chi 7 out of 10 times. It is so common it is meme for comedies.

youtube.com/watch?v=3keBJ187S-0

On vacation we got fleeced (judging by flow of explecitives from father) in France, Greece and South Africa.

It is only your opinion as well as it is only your opinion who is and who is not antisemitic or petty minded. That testament of you would be of some worth if not added sentence - those who claim to speak for Poland. That clearly is ideological bias and not objective observation.

So yes you are not a snob because of your supposedly liberal and enlighten stance but because you are using your idealogical conditioning to turn into labeling and classify people according to the form which has nothing to do with the truth or objectivity.

It is the fact that you enjoy to classify people and you enjoy to see some of them as beneath you regardless of your justification that makes you in fact a snob.

In short, expat isn't an immigrant ;) You call yourselves expats, not immigrants. Have you noticed?


Oh dear... Everything lol From Poles being religious (and what is simply the worst thing in the world - Catholics) to washing machines in the bathroom lol Everything that is different and everything that is the same as in your countries. When it's the same but it is or happens in Poland it suddenly becomes as if unique to Poland and just worse, vile and just... ugh... lol


Well, there you go... I don't have such an impression.
And what others?

I think it's justifiable to criticize such behaviour. But if you say that it's something normal for Poles or unique to Poles, commonplace and widespread then I disagree. Unless foreigners are treated in some other way then Poles, but I wouldn't know that, since I'm not a foreigner lol


One of the problems is hypocrisy. Some of you are criticising sth that is present also in other countries and your own country as if it was sth... I don't know... extraordinary lol

Sometimes people are simply unfair.
Let's take the most fresh example - newpip

What she's writing about Polish women is simply rubbish - that for Polish mothers and daughters "the main goal is to spend time at a beauty salon with aspirations to get a boob job" lol

Ah, yes, another problem - generalising.


To be honest I'm a bit tired today already and If I was to go into details I would probably write an essay lol

I've mentioned hypocrisy and generalising. And prejudices, of course. That's of course common human behaviour, it doesn't depend on the nationality.
But there's something that makes you guys "special" to some extent, I think lol
You're from the West (that applies to USA too). You're the richest and the most advanced countries. There's, let us say, noone "above you". Most countries have someone "above them" but you don't. So, you see, you have absolutely no idea how it's like to be "below" someone. You don't know how it's like when someone is constantly rubbing it in how much "below" you are :) How many things has to be done, improved, changed. Especially when you very well KNOW that those things have to be done, improved, changed. So when someone is talking about it over and over again you start to wonder "Why is he/she doing that? Does this give him/her pleasure? Does this make him/her feel better about themselves and their country?".

It is really funny sometimes when people from the West and USA come here and think that when they make a thread on PF about sth and complain there then it will change sth in Poland, that it will make Poles, I don't, think, suddenly do sth about it? lol It was like that with Jason's thread about Polish roads. I must admit I simply laughed at him in my comment, because what can you do? :) He probably meant well but how silly, naive and arrogant one has to be to write sth like this? ;)

In short, you're putting us down. Despite the fact that you don't really have to do that. Our self-esteem and opinion about our country is low enough. You don't have to dig an even deeper pit for us lol Really...

Also, there are things that are a bit different in Poland then in the West and maybe we like it. Maybe not everything has to be like in your countries, you know?

Often you're being too impatient, as if you didn't realise that a country needs time to change and develop. Sometimes I have an impression that you guys don't really understand, for example, where some things come from and why it's the way it is, etc.

And some of you are really incredibly judgemental lol


Are you telling me you're judging a country of 38 mln people by a few Americans of Polish origin writing on this forum?
Really?


Thank you, Rysavy, for the voice of reason.

Read what I wrote please. "Those claiming to represent Poland". And you're judging 'expats' by our reactions to such people.

Look at the thread opened by Marek11111. What impression does this give to anyone dropping in on Polish Forums?

I don't doubt you or what you're saying. It's just that I am curious if I am allowed to, by some Poles' standards, remark upon my little experience how it deserves to be?

What remarks am I allowed to make?
And if I do so, is that looking down upon my nose, rightfully so, at some behavior? Would it depend on what I remarked?
Is that what they're talking about or is it something else?

I guess I am also still looking for examples of behavior whatever kind of behavior Polonius described (note that I'm not entirely sure what he "said") in the OP. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I just want to know their experiences of it, purely out of interest.

If that makes no sense then there's an excellent reason for that: )

Oh dear.
I wrote: "You quite often look down on us, our country and the way we live."
Your comment to this was: "If we are to judge Poland by what gets written in Polish Forums, is this any great surprise?"

So I wrote: "What are you talking about?"

What Poles living in Poland, Poland as a country and the way we live (in Poland) have to do with Americans of Polish origins living in America? Could you explain?

(this is really tiring, btw)


No, ifor bach, I'm not judging expats by your reactions to such people lol I see you din't understand anything of what I wrote.


That a few Americans of Polish origin who are anti-Semitic are attracted to this forum? Marek11111 is from Stanwood, Washington.


lol


You know what? You are allowed to make any remarks you can imagine. Just remark to your heart's content... Really...

*sigh*

Okay I get ya but are you saying all people from the west have this attitude? How do you perceive who does and doesn't have this attitude? When they "rub it in" what exactly does that mean? What do they actually do other than the example below? I am interested in hearing more of such examples.


I don't know how to answer that but for some people, we are simply remarking at what needs to be done and there is 0 emotion behind it- it just needs to be done and maybe the more that topic comes up, the more likely it is that something will get down about it. Wishful thinking? Perhaps. But even at it's worst, that's nowhere near as heinous reasons you've imagined.


So you're offended people are taking notice of things that really do need fixing because in reality you don't care about those things but it means one of "us" has a superiority complex if one of "us" mentions it more than the alloted times?


I see the merits of your point. I really do. What I mean is, it doesn't make sense to me so far but I think I have probably just missed or can't imagine, right now, the nuances of the situation you described and that likely ties it all together.

But, at the same time, I feel you're over-reacting a bit.
Why get so bothered about something you don't care to change anyhow? It would seem as though you're looking down your nose as much as they might be. I admit it may not be my or another person's place to point out what needs mending but I hardly consider that looking down one's nose at anything beyond shoddy repairing. Is that really something not worth pointing out? Would I be judged harshly for doing that?

Paulina
Standing ovation from me. I often wondered how to put my feelings and observations into words but never managed to do it. You took the cake. Thanks :)

I'm talking about impressions here. When people see 'Marek' banging on about 'the Joos' on Polish Forums, they are unlikely to stop to try and find out if he is actually Polish or not.

No.


I wouldn't agree with that 0 emotion.


lol
Foreigner4, it's not even wishful thinking, it's simply silly. I... I just can't understand xD why do you think that complaining about sth on an internet forum that is read by maybe 10 Poles living in Poland (I'm being generous now) will somehow change anything? Could you explain it to me? xD


Thanks for this rubbish you wrote - it's a nice example of what I had in mind. I'm not "offended". And why did you assume that I don't care about those things? Where did you get that? That's what you people do. You assume the worst about us o_O


Yes, I see that what I wrote doesn't make sense to you. And I see it won't.


:)
As I wrote before - you guys simply don't get it.


Again.
Where did I write that I don't care?
Did you actually read what I wrote?
Or was I not clear in what I wrote?
I wrote: "Especially when you very well KNOW that those things have to be done, improved, changed."
I meant Poles. We KNOW. Do you understand?


You're welcome ;) I guess it had to be done at some point. Though it's not always easy to be honest about these things.


Ifor bach, we're not discussing about impressions of people living in some other countries visiting this forum. We're talking about expats living in Poland.

I feel quite sorry for you that you feel the need to write this. Has it/would it occur to you that not everyone perceives the world as a hierarchy of 'better' and 'worse' nations? That the 'problem' exists solely within your own skull?

I'm from the so called west I see it, have argued against it and it certainly isn't in her skull.

I wish the Poles and Polonians on PF would show the same outrage when certain people spread BS about Russians, Germans, Jews, Americans etc. on this forum...

I didn't write "everyone".
I'm not the only person who notices those things (and I don't mean Lenka). Not only Poles make such observations.

There's one more thing - some of you don't take criticism well :) As if when you criticise others, it's OK, but you're off limits. One can't make observations about you. Everything must be in our heads :)


Ifor bach, if such problems were only in our heads then it would mean we live in a prefect world with no xenophobia, prejudices, etc. Do we live in a perfect world? I don't think we do. Unfortunately.

OK, those who were able to understand what I wrote understood it. Those who aren't and didn't understand probably never will.
Thanks for reading and any tries of understanding.


I did that and I still try to do that. But it's mainly to show that I care because those people are usually hopeless and beyond repair. And you didn't see me arguing with Poles on Polish blogs and forums, oh boy :)

You've been nursing that chip on your shoulder for some eight hundred years. Where has it got you and what good has ever come of it?

???????????
Is there anything an Irish person can say that will dissuade you from bring up the colonisation of Ireland. It has nothing to do with this thread.