Etiquette in a Store and Market Queues in Poland

I'm not offended, I'm laughing at you.

i agree magda, nobody should be rude enough to loudly whinge or mock their host country whatever their nationality, sadly i hear it a lot here in UK in public and from people here on

the forum who have benefited from free education, healthcare and all the rest of it in the UK.
People can think what they like but there is no need to be downright rude.

Not me as such in this particular thread, but that's exactly what rozumiemnic told goofy and what I quoted above my last statement. In other threads, I've been told to shut up about stuff I don't like in the UK countless times, because they said that by complaining I was abusing the hospitality of my host country. Seems like it doesn't work both ways, does it? A Pole abroad should shut up because it's not their home to criticise or comment on, but an expat in Poland can and even should speak up because it's their home now and they live there, so have the right to change their surroundings (for the better, they usually say).


If other Poles said the stuff that's been said in this thread? For example:

"Poles, or at least a good many of them, seem to genuinely thrive on creating as much disorder and disarray as possible within any and all situations.

really unfit people for a healthy society imo.

From a societal and psychological perspective, I find the phenomenon fascinating from a perspective of "How-much-dysfunction can a society tolerate?""

I'd tell them, not too kindly, that they were talking through their hats, and that they should stop taking their superiority supplements because the've clearly overdosed.


I don't have an inferiority complex, you see. So yes, I generally feel pretty much OK. Thanks for the kind words though, it's always nice to read something positive for a change.

Nevertheless, I really cannot stand aside when I see the double standards which are commonplace here. I think you for one genuinely don't see it and don't understand what I am going on about. I never believed in stuff like "white privilege" but here I could almost call it a case of "Western privilege", where you don't even realise you're thinking in certain ways and making assumptions which are not really true (and by "you" I don't only mean yourself, rather all the expats in this thread).

1) When a Polish person makes a critical or unfavourable comment about another country, and especially if it's an Anglo-Saxon country, and especially if they are living there, the general reaction is "Eff off if you don't like it, you ungrateful immigrant from a poverty-stricken hellhole, you have no right to say these things because you are a guest, not a member of this society; also, even though you live here, you know nothing about this country (e.g. the London Is Not England answer I get whenever I say anything remotely critical about London)."

2) When expats start threads like this one though, and someone pipes up that perhaps they don't understand how things work in Poland or don't understand the culture, or God forbid that they should leave Poland if they don't like it, the answer is "I am a full member of Polish society now, I live and work here, I pay my taxes, and my comments and criticisms are valuable input for the improvement of Polish society."

Do you understand what I am on about? I honestly don't know how to make myself more clear.

yes it is, i have noticed Goofy's attitude about UK a few times now, and honestly it gets on my nerves, he is only about 17 and still in school here and no doubt keen to reap the benefits of a UK education.

I know what you mean and I can see that bigoted attitude on this forum.
However in Poland there are a few individuals who are really take the biscuit in the way they behave.
I'm not talking about blocking the doors on buses but about people walking in the crowd as if they have been alone and not showing any awareness of their surroundings and other people. That is a plainly wrong attitude displayed by minority and i agree it should have been corrected by contra-action.

A guy who was busy texting walked into me on my way to work this morning. I saw him coming, realised that our paths would cross and just stopped walking: he just walked straight into me (I must admit that just before contact I lowered my shoulder and leaned in). He clearly thought that it was my fault that he'd walked into a stationary object.

yeah they tend to be very confused individuals as well.

Well those people are twats so that's that.


No. It doesn't because the Poles on this thread are the ones protesting to a couple anecdotes some foreigners have shared with each other. Why?


I've explained that statement to you, if you insist on interpreting that as a blanket statement applicable to all Poles then there's no helping you and that's that.


So you think there is zero dysfunction in Polish society?
Or is it you "know" that I think I'm superior to each and every Pole because I've noticed some odd behavior from some Poles?


I never said any kind words to you or about you. Your readiness to take that as a compliment tells me you've interpreted any uncomplimentary comment about anything Polish as a comment about yourself. I wasn't talking about you on page 1 and the complimentary things about Polish society weren't about you either. You're a non-entity in my experiences here, not in a good way or bad way just a fact of the matter. If you want to take these things personally then I am left with no other conclusion that you, Grzegorza and Lenka are being overly emotional.


Yes I understood that a long time ago but I've no idea why you've chosen me to target other than you think you "know" what I mean despite me telling you, quite honestly that you're dead wrong.

Have I ever told you not to criticize or comment about the society where you live?
Have I not chosen to be specific with my words and avoided sweeping generalizations?
If you can prove otherwise then show me; I'll apologize (sincerely and profusely) and correct it.

I'm not saying the double standards you talk about don't exist but I'm not responsible for them, therefore I kindly ask you take up your crusade with those who are.

None of the foreigners in this thread have blamed you for the people we've observed who lack crowd etiquette.
It's all just one big (5 pages) of a misunderstanding.
Now if you've read this page you'll see both ironside and Harry have some experiences and observations of their own. Are you going to let them get away with such attacks on all of Poland and all Poles?

I understand how people feel about the trolley or basket being left by the checkouts, but for me worse still is the situation regarding buses! A lot of people don't wait for passengers to step off the bus before jumping on, even if it's an elderly person!

I'm sorry but whichever way I look at it, it's a blanket statement, but never mind, I understand you didn't mean it that way.


I never said that. I said there is about the same amount of dysfunction in Poland as in any other European society. I even mentioned London as a point of comparison.


I never said you said any kind words to ME.


OMG. I was just trying to be polite and thanked you for trying to say something positive - about Poland, not about me. Looking for common ground or whatever. Didn't work.


I thought we were having a conversation and for a moment I thought you might actually understand (this is spoken to you personally). But overall I did say:



Once more. It's not about any "attacks". I've tried to explain my point of view so many times I feel like crying from sheer frustration. I joined this thread because I found it ridiculous that the behaviour of a few isolated individuals could cause so much righteous indignation. I tried pointing out that such behaviour is not in any way typically Polish. And then it escalated.

Yeah I hear what you're saying about escalating:/ But the "righteous indignation" that you're banging on about is just that.
Okay, I agree the "Poles from North to South" was a rather dumb thing to write but why not take that up with the author?


Yes, and we've taken note of one aspect of that dysfunction in Poland, that's it.


And before you were trying to be rude?
Why would you thank me for saying something polite about Polish society when you're responsible for neither the bad nor good I've experienced here?

We think very differently on this matter and perhaps we think very differently about watching where we're going when we walk as well: )

Anyhow Magda, you're alright and I thank you for doing your best to make me see your sense of logic. I just need more time to figure out how you think.

I hope London treats you well and if not London, then wherever it is you are.

Naaa, Poles aren't rude they're abrupt which is a lot different. And many English are moralists, It's the culture. If you don't like it, you shouldn't live here or there.

I don't think it is dumb at all. It is an accurate description.

I tried to appreciate the effort you made, that's all ;-) And no, I didn't take it personally. Your compliments didn't make ME feel better (as I feel fine), they made YOU seem like a nicer person. That's a hell of a difference, don't you think?


That might well be :-)

Thank you for trying to follow my convoluted ramblings ;-)
I think this thread is not so much about Polish pedestrians any more as about the very different ways we experience stuff like space, time, the universe... ;-)

beat me at my own game...sigh


With you Magda, the pleasure has been all mine: )

I strive to please... ;-)

What are you talking about? walking zombie is no abrupt it is just mindless behaviour.


What are you talking about? Double standards displayed by many English posters on this forum are a fact. I call it hypocrisy.

Okay, not to resurrect a debate here but last weekend, I was in the Beskidy for a few days. Heading back down the trails, one thing which was apparent was that my observations were validated. It's like half travelled upwards on their left, a third on their right and a fifth down the middle...and the same thing with people heading down the hills.

Cyclists going down were noticeably annoyed at the chaos (there were a few close calls) but it was impossible for anyone to stick to one side or the other because the next wave of people coming had chosen another direction and then they would get p*ssy with people coming down in their path.. It actually became funny after some time.

One thing that annoys me is people "saving seats" on trains for their friends who aren't there yet.

I recently had a connection between trains in Piła, and when I got on the local train to Poznań it was pretty packed, mostly with students going back to school (it was a Sunday night). There was one empty seat with 3 girls occupying the rest of the seating bay. I asked politely if I could sit, and got the response "we're saving this for our friend". I asked where she was then, and got no answer.

Being tired after a long trip from Germany, I waited until departure time and sat myself down, much to their chagrin. I got an earful, but informed them that it was a regional train without seat reservations, and as far as I was concerned, seats were first-come, first-served. The friend showed up after the train was moving, and ended up standing. I didn't feel bad about this (other than having to make a scene), especially as all four of them were traveling half-price on their student discount, whereas I was paying 100%!!! If the friend wanted to sit, she could get herself to the station earlier.

Doesn't bother me, just sit down anyway. That train in question is particularly awful though - it's always full of students from Piła and coffin dodgers going to/from the seaside. I made the mistake of taking the 7.40ish train from Poznan north once - oh dear...not to be repeated.

In Poland, people tend to mind their own business. Getting involved in the affairs of the others is not socially acceptable.

And yes, crossing a street on red is something most poles will hesitate to do, even if the street is empty. Also, when you cross the street, most poles speed up not to keep the cars waiting.

But reserving the spots in queue is indeed irritating. But rather then ******** you should adapt and do the same.

Keeping the spot for your companions is normal here.
However, if you are not around and no one keeps it for you then you have to right to demand, regardless whether you left your trolley or not. So the guy who was bumping you with cart in the OP is a jerk and everyone will agree(silently)

I understand that in crowds it is easy to bump someone by accident, but you apologise - right? In Poland there are no apologies, in fact bumpers and foot trampers either ignore the fact that they have just hurt you, or have an 'I have the right to do that' attitude. Also, don't try to apologise for bumping someone else - they just look at you like you're crazy! Same goes for being polite to strangers - this is also classed as 'crazy' here, especially if the politeness is directed towards check-out staff when shopping.

People have zero patience towards each other here. Fruit and veg must be weighed before going to the register, but God forbid you should turn to your trolley/cart to pick up your next item to weigh as someone will elbow you out of the way to use the scales - yes, no exaggeration. They literally move you as if you were no more than a trolley/cart yourself. Ghastly - I almost fell over in shock the second time it happened (first time I thought the lady was literally mentally unwell). Happens all the time - it is some unspoken rule that 'this is ok'. People will also push, bump, ram baby strollers if in the way - child and all. They will push small children in quite a rough manner. My son has been in tears on many occasions for such things.

I feel I have just hit the tip of the 'anti-social' iceberg here in Poland. I've tried to stick to store and market, but don't get me started on the road....I don't like going out in public here. I hope this will change one day with the return of Polish people living outside of Poland. My Husband spent many years in Australia and is disgusted by the Polish public in comparison.

You need to perfect the "I have lots of things to weigh and there is no hope in hell you are getting in here" eye. Works every time and they shuffle off to the next weigh station.

All this pushing in queues and stuff used to annoy me when I arrived but you need to adapt. I will try and give people personal space, but if someone tries to skip in then you just need to sternly point out that the queue starts behind you. The other day I was at Biedronka and just put my stuff on the belt when a guy came back and said "I was in the queue, look there is my bag of tomatoes (on one of the sweet displays near the register) and I only have them and bread to pay for". I couldn't help but laugh slightly at his brass neck, then just told him I only have one item and the display is not the belt. He wasn't pleased, but he didn't really have a leg to stand on.

The key is to be polite and act as you would back home normally, but don't hesitate to be firm when need be. Simples!

I'm trying very hard to follow this rule of thumb - it is very sound advice!

About the man with the tomatoes - it is sadly an example of very common behaviour. I look around and wonder, does anyone else think this is crazy stuff or just me. Good that you can have a laugh about it, certainly helps!

I have noticed younger people seem to think it's crazy but older folk just ignore it. I think the retired community are not in as much of a rush as us youngsters.

I laughed the other day because an old woman tried to skip right to the front of the queue saying "but I only need to buy one loaf of bread", to which the girl she was trying to skip in front of said "and I am only buying this lettuce, plus I can count coins". It was a bit cheeky of her, but I had to giggle, because it is a nightmare when you have an old dear paying and taking about 4 years to count out the exact amount of grosze to pay for an item.

Since my last post from 18 June I have tried to observe people in queues whenever I/we went shopping, usually twice a week in big shopping centres.

polishforums.com/life/poland-etiquette-store-market-queues-66617/4/#msg1377942

It is amazing but I haven`t really seen the things which have been discussed in this thread. I haven`t noticed any problems, whatsoever. People are cultural and heedful enough for me.

That is why such stories by some posters sound like a legend about iron wolf.


Bullshyt.


Another bulshyt.


BS.


Of course, no exaggeration, just another piece of crap.

Why are you lying so much, that is really intriguing.


Funny that I have three kids and have never had problem with taking them to crowded places.


That is your main problem, I think. You suffer from some fears and obsessions, it seems you are scared of life in general, especially when you have to be among people . Why don`t you see a councellor???

Especially that your neurotic attitude seems to have passed onto your kid



I am afraid it is you who should deal with your problem.


Yes, it does. That is why, always have a good laugh before, during and after doing shopping in Poland. And don`t worry that people will consider you crazy..... :):)P