Etiquette in a Store and Market Queues in Poland

I didn't see all Poles in her statement therefore it meant some Poles. Personally I think you are wrong.

Ppl in Poland are rude from one end to the other in my opinion counts for blanket statements. And it can't be backed up by facts because rudness can't be measured- partially due to cultural differences.

Well thank you. I'm a Shkodran myself (just born).

Should be proud :)

I had a great dinner overlooking the river there - although the love for America was bewildering in Europe ;)

I'm sorry I couldn't help commenting on that. It's such a big misunderstanding that thread, and no-one seems to bother to put the OP straight.

It's a norm in Poland that people ask a person who's next in front of them in the queue to keep their place saying they forgot about some product and they should back in a moment. They often leave a basket or cart to mark that someone stands there. Of course if someone doesn't coming back to the queue for long time he "losts" his place. It's hard to judge who was right - you or that guy, but is it really a subject for a thread?


When such small things start bite, that's the first sign of the immigrant's illness ;)

Can't imagine what kind of situation you're talking about, but if they are togheter, then what's your problem?


When in Rome act like Romans.


No. There's no such a rule.
Do in the USA people walk on footpath accordingly to traffic regulations? ;D

Again when in Rome...

Maybe because the things you complain about aren't really rude or are not worth of any intervention? People who make a fuss are usually considered nutters.

If I were you I would flushed with embarassment. If you really minded you should help that guy to board the bus instead hurling insults.


You definitely was the star of the show :)

Actually how long has it taken you to come up with that idea? :)


Actually it's other way round. In the times of communism people were more bold to show a disaproval for unsocial behaviour. That included teenagers smoking or drinking in public.


They are deep in their thoughts.


You display this annoying imperialistic attitude: if something is not like in my home country, it must be uncivilised.

Very predictable. You judge others but when others judge you then it must be a meaningless anecdotal evidence or... a Pole pretending to be English! ;)


Is not having a change rude?
There is problem with copper grosz coins since it's uneconomic mint them.

Would it be alright if I deliberately bump on you when you were deep in thoughts or looking somewhere else not seeing me? I find your behaviour and explanation of it bizarre.

Perhaps you should reconsider what does a cultural difference mean. Obviously we have some here.
For the record: loud complaining on others is not considered to be a good conduct.

A truly polite person in Poland is expected to:
- be blind on little solecisms of others
- turn gaffes of others into jests
- say no harm done

If you're curious, ask away. I'll do my best to answer.


I'd be happy to.

Feathers were already getting ruffled all around before I made my appearance ;-)

I've lived in several countries and that seems to be the norm everywhere.

There is probably some Victorian book somewhere on how to apply common sense to any particular situation but I don't have a copy so I refuse to go shopping.

Where did I write anything about a rule?


I don't know what the custom is in every state but it's none of my concern.
When in Rome?
That's exactly my point, there's always a few too many people here who just can't seem to do that.
Case in point:
A footpath through the forest accommodates cyclists and pedestrians. In such an environment, the majority, in every country I've been to, establish some kind of norm. Same thing with swimming lanes, a norm of travel is established. In Poland though, there's like 20% of the population who just can not get with the program and are rather obstinate about it.

The world needs dissidents and perhaps these are yours but to me it just seems like too many Poles don't seem to grasp the concept of social contract (as referred to by another poster).


Less time than it took you to come up with your question; )

Magda, I'll think of something to write you. I want to make sure my recollection of events is accurate.

Poles are irritable (it's in the genes). Living in the States I've had to learn to smile, say thank you, excuse me, hold the door for the girls, exchange pleasantries (that don't mean a sh_t), be conscious of people around you. It was painful, but I Americanized (have a nice day).

my point is this. London is quite well known for being a less than friendly city. It is big, dirty, people are moving too quickly. This is nothing new for anybody. However, in Poland, the rudeness is not just limited to the city. It is all over. I have been all over Poland so I am relating my experiences not making a blanket statement.

yes, there are polite wonderful people here, I have come across many. Unfortunately, it is the rude ones you remember clearly.

actually Pip London is incredibly friendly compared to ...er....some places.

Yes, I believe it is. I wasn't 100% I was correct to do what I did, so I solicited other opinions.


Absolutely - if my lack of concentration created interference of your personal space, then I would fully expect this from you.


It's my experience that Poles either ignore or don't notice such soft words. They seem to see and hear more in terms of black and white than grayscale. I have had countless discussion with my students and friends here - the majority of them agree with this statement.

Of course that was your fault, do it regularly and it's a matter of time when your teeth are left on the sidewalk. It's really one of these times when I'm left speechless, are you people totally lacking space perception or social skills ? It's you, who have a problem, when I see a person, who don't know how to behave in a crowded place, moves to the left and right and slow down others, It's usually an "expat". Do you seriously need arrows and signs painted on the sidewalks to know how to move ?

It's my experience that English speaking people (though especially the British) tend to use a lot of understatements, which doesn't mean that they don't feel very strongly about a subject. Knowing this, I in turn tend to ignore the polite fluff they stuff their sentences with.

agreed.

I can give a personal example. When my parents first met my husband they commented to me that he never said please or thank you. I honestly never noticed until after they pointed it out. And then I made a point of noticing when we were with others and his family and indeed he never did say please or thank you. I asked why and it was thought by him that when you are around those you know -please and thank you are not necessary. Well, we fixed that in a hurry. My mother in law still doesn't say please and thank you. she just barks.

But living here for over 10 years I have noticed these small things- and they are important.

What's the Polish word for hypocrisy? And fellow Westerners, has any one of us claimed to know it all or that we are the best judges? Again, black and white interpretation. I certainly haven't written those words - but please feel free to judge the words I "meant" instead of those that I actually wrote.

Which means that maybe he was communicating the pleases and thank-yous non-verbally? Because if he were really and truly rude, I bet you would have noticed at once. That's the problem. Different cultures tend to place emphasis on different areas of etiquette. Most Poles would probably tell you that English people use too many "polite" words all the time, so much so that they lose value. More often than not in informal Polish, it's the intonation, the gestures, the actual word choice or word order that do the thanking or asking for you. BTW, how does you MIL "bark"? And does she bark in Polish or in English? If in English, it might be a problem relating to her insufficient knowledge of the language.

BLS - I have quoted some remarks I found rather patronising (understatement!) on the previous page. Maybe they "weren't meant that way". Then they shouldn't have been phrased the way they were. And yes, I did read them as rather black and white. A feeling of superiority just drips off of them.

Are you kidding us ? The usage of these words in Polish is much different than in English, look there are differences between languages, is it so difficult to understand ? It's the same as commonly referring to people one doesn't know by "you" which is generally rude in Polish, some none native Polish speaking "expats" still do it when using Polish... really, I sometimes think you people are either having a laugh or are 13 years old pretending to be grown ups.

My thoughts exactly.

my mother in law barks in Polish. Or rather issues commands.

anyway, I can relate another personal story. We have a place at the seaside where we go on the weekends. Last week end a few of our neighbours were around having a few drinks and a couple from Gdynia said to both me and my husband on separately how wonderful and polite my children are. It was embarrassing after 15 minutes of listening to them go on and on about my kids.

Politeness and manners are taught. And Polish children, in my opinion, and generally speaking- not a blanket statement, are not taught that manners are important. I cringe when I hear bratty children "nie chce or ja chce". Of course, not all Polish children are like this but many many are. And this is included in my husbands family.

When I hear Polish people say please and thank you it sounds like part of a demand or a command. There is nothing genuine about it. Perhaps this is a language or a cultural difference but I can tell you that in Canada and the UK, please and thank you is common and not barked.

A little politeness goes a long way.

Judging by some of the recent posts, I am inclined to agree with this statement. Perhaps these posters are satisfied with the way things are in Poland. I, however, strive to improve the society in which I live (I did it in America, and I do it here). Allowing an inconsiderate woman to bump into me was intended to help change her behavior towards the rest of society in the future. I took no pride in inflicting discomfort, it was the simple application of a basic psychological tool - negative reinforcement meant to elicit modified future behavior. Do you have another method of altering her behavior? Can you provide some other constructive solution? If not, or if you believe this woman should be allowed to continue her inconsiderate behavior in the midst of others ad infinitum, then perhaps you are the 13-year-old pretending to be a grown-up.

One more thing - like it or not, THIS is my society too. I am a legal resident in Poland; I pay taxes, I pay ZUS, I am every bit a member of this society as you are. If you believe I am patronizing the people of Poland, you are dead wrong - I am not trying to change your society, I am striving to improve MY society.

Dude, I walk here every day... when I see women or much older people, I move out of their way, kids and much younger guys move out of mine, when I am passing by a similar age guy, we both just move slightly to the sides... it works fine in vast majority of cases and when occasionally I see a person in a hurry, looking desperately for something and not paying attention to people around, I just move out of the way (it might happen to anyone, you never know what's going on and trying to preach about politeness on some occasions might only make you look like an *******) once you adopt these few simple social rules (which are quite natural for majority of people living here) you will not have much problems with walking here anymore... and let me tell you something about bumping into women on the streets, stop doing that or one day some guy passing by will simply kick the living shyt out of you and a fact that you pay ZUS will rather not help you much, no you're not improving anything... If you still don't get it, I'm not sure how else could I help you, perhaps think about a Polish person walking around London or NY and "teaching" locals that they should refer to each other as Sir/Madam instead of usual "you", that would be similar "improvement".

I can tell you, without a doubt, that ALL of our Polish friends who now live in Canada (not a blanket statement, only referring to our friends) notice that when they return to Poland for holidays or whatever, they notice the differences in the rudeness between the two countries.

Poles living in Canada are very good about adopting the politeness when speaking English.

1) American politeness requirements are far less stringent in this regard than in Poland (Czy ma pani bilety?). And I do believe Poles can teach Americans a thing or two, especially about families and how they should function. And if this would improve US society, then I'm all for it. Why are you so resistant to improve your society?

2) The woman was half my age - and she bumped into ME. Do you not get that?
3) You haven't answered my questions:


You make many false assumptions, you don't answer questions posed in previous posts, and you seem unwilling to consider any person's viewpoint other than your own. Since you don't seem to have an open mind and have lowered this discussion with your "them vs. us" mentality, I am finished engaging you.

Yes, that the way they like it and a person coming from another corner of the world trying to "improve" it would be simply silly.


Poland has a serious problem with corruption, If you improve this situation in any way, I will be very grateful but your "improvements" are simply silly...


Unless she was a high school kid or you are in your 70's, it is still rather you, who should move out of her way.


You clearly have an open mind, on both sides.

Thank you. Please tell that to my colleagues at work who make a paradise out of polish institutions.

Well Magdalena, I could tell you many a thing but based on the above two statements, I put my own words at risk of your interpretation. And on my behalf no less!

Thank you, but I decline your offer: )
The words "appear" and "seem," at least in my usage of them, are not meant to be polite. I use those words to be specific. It's how I communicate "here's what it looks like from my perspective" in writing; not "This is a fact."

The quotes you took from me are a bit out of context - that reads like an emotional and knee-jerk reaction to any criticism of anything Polish by anyone who's not Polish.

If someone steps out into public but can't be bothered to take stock of those and the situation around them then that is in fact a sad indicator on that individual- why would you feel compelled to run to their defense on that? Is it okay for one Pole to walk to the front of a queue just because they feel like it? Is it okay for me and the rest of those in the queue (presumably Poles) to set the guy straight? Is it okay with you if I do that on my own or do I have to wait for the locals to stand up for themselves before I'm allowed to as well?

I doubt you spend your time bumbling around walking into elevators before anyone gets off; pushing your way through the people leaving buses and trams instead of politely waiting for them to get off; running on the left side of the pavement, constantly disrupting the flow of cyclists and groups (despite the fact the VAST majority are traveling on the right); or walking around chatting on your phone, so engaged in the conversation that you can't be bothered to notice what your eyes are seeing. Those habits are simply rude and there's no excusing them. So why are you?

I agree with BLS, while not avoiding the collision, he simply chose not to avoid what the other person was doing. And no Grzegorz, that will likely not result in violence, a real man will tell his woman to watch where she's going or guide her through the crowd in the first place.

Here's an example, I was running along a footpath through the forest. I saw an old guy walking with those Nordic sticks coming the same direction. I moved more to my right to give him as much path as I could. He immediately responded by moving to his left so once again he was coming right for me. I thought "whatever" and then moved off the path and continued jogging on the grass even further to my right. He then proceeded to move on to the grass to his left once again bringing us into opposition. I slowed up a bit and was a bit perplexed so I gave the universal body language that says "what do you want from me." The guy then does the exact same thing and keeps coming at me only faster....Now please tell me how you would interpret that.

I think for everyone here it is clear that after that he dropped his sticks, chased you and finally jumped on your back, all beware of Nordic sticks grandpa...

Oh and it was likely your grandpa too. Sadly, I think everyone here would agree you've fallen well short of his standard: )

He's in the mood for a spot of Oklahoma drill.