HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE POLAND IN 2010?

The basing reason for totally ****** up economy is the simple fact that after communist rule there weren't no elite to take over Polish affairs. People able to do the job were ridiculed and set aside in favour of ex-communist officials and part of the so called opposition which benefited from so called transformational.

Let's bear something in mind here - the people who were allegedly able to do the job were put in charge of all the sentimental Solidarność facilities. Why is it now, none of these facilities are doing well at all?

It's no different to how West Germany used ex-Nazis to rebuild their economy. It didn't hurt them, and it's not hurting Poland.

It simply wouldn't have made any sense whatsoever to get rid of all the people with experience, especially in favour of untested workers with no managerial experience whatsoever.

And so will the West! ;)


Spot on, a lot of us would prefer it if the West was more like it was 50 years ago.

Poland: PLEASE learn from our mistakes before it's too late!

Sadly , i think its human nature to follow what appears to be a better lifestyle...Poland will try to be like the UK...The UK will follow the USA.....one day the whole world will be like America.... if we don,t all kill each other before then....

You make sense here and its logical in a way but we are not talking here about few specialist but about all intermingled leftovers from communist state and their attitude which can be felt in nowadays Poland.

You don't understand the ways in which such ex-communist were harmful to Poland and I'm too sleepy to explain !

People who were able to to do job were set aside in favour of Solidarity members. Didn't matter if you knew how to do the job but who you were politically.

I've know many people who were in middle management and suddenly were being put off jobs or taking early retirement just because they happened to be managers for few years before 'round table'. Even if they weren't members of PZPR. So be it communists or Solidarity, the same principle applies.

certain people from opposition as well I said ....... and there were solidarity member's which happened to be party members before ...

Aha, these guys - well, of course, I completely agree that they should have been thrown out. They had/have little to offer apart from a bad attitude, and from what I can tell, were only in the positions they had because they didn't rock the boat and were reliable enough not to protest.

The problem in Poland from my perspective is that many Solidarity members today have become what they always hated - bureaucratic, inefficient individuals with more interest in their own well being than the success of the workplace. The recent-ish riot in Poznan tells you everything about them - Solaris have been doing amazingly well for a Polish company, yet Ciegelski have chosen to blame everyone else, even when it was their own bad (Solidarity) management that caused the recent financial problems in the first place.

Maybe it's time for a 5th republic to rise, sweeping away not only Communists, but also Solidarity members?

twenty years ago the United States was entering the height of its power.

Poland is far from having even a fraction of the power exercised by the United States in the late eighties and early nineties - economically or otherwise.

So you, my friend, sound like the twat.

The analogy of fifty years ago stands as the precedent. If you disagree with it, prove it wrong.

Last time i checked the analogy between Poland and US could be made 400 years ago when Poland had analogous power so your point is completely wrong.

Polish economy is 20 years behind and thats about it.

Work in progress: 15 more years to complete the Job:)

Poland never had analogous power. The Polish-Lithuania Commonwealth was a regional superpower in Europe. Its influence was nary felt beyond that. That cannot be said of American influence. Last time I checked, English speakers number in the billions. In fact, you're speaking it to me. How many Polish speakers did you get during that time? That's what I thought. Following this supposed 'great power' you were promptly erased from the map of Europe completely. The dual spearhead of the UK and the US acquired far more power than Poland ever dreamed of having.

The Polish economy at a GDP of 688 billion will catch up to the American economy of 14.4 trillion in twenty years!? Wow, Sokrates, that is remarkable growth for a nation that couldn't build a metro system of ONE line in under 60 years!

688 billion to 14.4 million in fifteen years . . . wow . . . do you actually believe any of the stuff that comes out of your mouth? That would put the Polish economy on par with the ENTIRE economy of the European Union as it stands today in TWENTY YEARS!

Quite possible.

Or maybe you're talking per capita. Poland stands at roughly 17,000USD per capita. the US stands at roughly 47,000USD per capita. You're going to close that gap in twenty years?

Wow, Poland must have some of the most brilliant economists that have ever graced the world. I mean, I have respect for SGH, but damn . . . they must be brilliant.

Take it easy peckerwood! America has 10x as many people as Poland. They'll never match the GDP. Poland should concentrate on standard of living and I think they can match the "western standard" in roughly 15-20 years. And the metro?! Ever heard of WWII that devastated Warsaw??! Why are you criticizing Poland so much? Are you Jewish?

The metro was begun in the 1920s. Last I checked, that was quite a bit before WWII.

I can agree that they could meet standard of living quality in twenty years. However, we were not discussing standard of living - we were discussing economy - these are two different things. It's simply laughable to say that Poland will match the US in per capita GDP contribution within twenty years.

Oh, as for the old WWII excuse for the Polish ineffectual nature - Germany was also nearly completely destroyed and they don't seem to be afflicted with Poland's fatalistic apathy toward nearly everything.

I am a gentile. Not sure what that has to do with anything.

Western Germany received money from the USA and other countries after WWII to rebuild its economy. It was called the Marshall Plan. This is why the western Krauts were able to get back on their feet in a couple of decades (they also imported a lot of immigrants to help rebuild the country). It's not because the Gerries work harder. Poland was offered this aid but the bloody Ruski's denied them this. This leaves a sour taste in your mouth. Eastern Germans are still catching up.

And lastly, Jews like taking cheap shots at Poland so I assumed you were Jewish. Let's move on.

You wish! ;)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#Expenditures

Germany got less than GB or France....but no British or French "Wirtschaftswunder" and the Gastarbeiter were sought because the already up and running german industry run out of workers due the quick growing...it didn't did the growing because of the guest workers!

Are you that stupid or are you playing the fool only?

Ever heard of the Morgenthau Plan?

I think you are confusing influence with power. Poland did not look Westward whenever it mused expansion, and the world was a different place them. Militarily, Poland during the P-L Commonwealth was pretty much unbeatable. Even in financial terms, Poland's economy, during her golden age, was superior to that of countries such as France.


I hope not.

An average working American's share of the national debt is around $80,000 (170% of income)
An average working Pole's share of the national debt is $12,000 (70% of income)

And in 5 years, it'll be ... 5 years behind (or par).

And controlled the reneissance Europe through trade and its immidiate neighbours through diplomacy and military might.


Absolutely rubbish, Poland faced and overcome far greater political and military odds before finally giving in to internal issues, take the deluge when Poland had to fight 2 large and 2 medium sized powers and one small power at the same time (and won!).

US and UK were never faced with such opposition, even Nazi Germany was weaker then reneissance era opposition that Poland faced, of course the XX century armies and communication are larger in scale but then again population of the world is over x50 times larger.

Got any more uneducated bullsh*t to share with us?

a complete focking mess

good plan


wrong, Poland didn't exercise its power in the west and your view is western hence your ignorance (could be forgiven)


behind what? stop farting please

Bad Plan...no european revival after the war whatsoever with a black hole in the midst of Europe...no "machine" to drag all along! ;)

The minds behind the Marshall plan knew that..
The other short sighted idiots, like you, would only had spawned WWIII in the end!

Right now Poland has one of the best economies in EU. Last year Poland had the highest BNP-growth in Europe.

One of the reasons is that Poland is one of the biggest (or the biggest now?) netto-receiver of money from other EU-countries.

EU invest extremely much money in Poland.

Not for quite some time now...


Officially or in reality? In reality at least 50% of that money went back to EU.


Smell it baby, behind countries like Germany or UK.


It did, not as much but it did.

the only reason to spare Germany was to use them as a buffer against soviets,BB

To have a buffer against the Soviets they needed a commie free Germany (and other western european countries).

What do you think was the more successfull buffer...a happy, well fed, people? Or a starving, restless, unhappy morgenthauish black hole?

Without the Marshallplan the commies would had had an easy game...Stalin wouldn't had even needed to invade, no revival of Europe at all.

really ?when and in what way?


piglet as well, eh?


and you gather that Poland economy is going into the right direction ?


or so they say


oh I know BB without soviets there wouldn't be west Germany......nevertheless the plan was good ...

If you like wars and unrest...then it was a great plan!

Germany would had existed anyhow, Soviets or not....the question was if it would be the motor of Europe or the black hole of it? There is no Europe without the Germans...;)

I agree :) doesn't means that Europe needs German state ....