I'm British in Poland and I think that it's time to go back to the UK!

Which is obviously of more concern to you than any of us.

But that said

It appears as though you have no idea just how much easier it is for Poles in the UK to wade through all the bureaucracy there than it is for Brits in Poland

I agree wholeheartedly! If you read the whole thread then you'd know that I am simply trying to show some of you that it's not true that the Polish have it so fine and dandy in the UK. There were some people who claimed that the Polish have all the Polish-language documentation and forms at their fingertips in the UK, whereas the evil Polish authorities do not give the same to the English speakers. So I just tried to explain that it's not as easy as all that for Poles in the UK. Not that it should be - but I already said that earlier as well.

I think you are missing the point. I have worked in England and had to go to the office there to get my NI number and it took me 6 months to get a bank account open because of various reasons e.g. my name was not on any utility bill, in Ireland we do not have post codes so the computer system would not accept me and me just getting frustrated. And of course I speak English, so I can fill out the forms and talk to the people in the office. I have to do the same here and I do not expect anything to be in English here in Poland but the sh!t you have to go through here is ridiculous and does not seem to be changing. In London they have (had) those "one stop" places everywhere , where you can find info about most things. Here I go to one office and then to another and then to another then back to the first, although the offices here are not even as close to being as bad as another country in the E.U. it is still rubbish. I really would like to see a TV program hidden camera show about going to offices in excommunist countries, it is so maddening it is funny, provided of course you are watching someone else. It could be like the program "Usterka" that used to be on years ago,except for offices.

P.S. I much prefer living here in Poland than I did living in various parts of England.

It would be so nice sometimes if this was to ever to happen in Polish offices, but alas, I have never witnessed it yet...except the one time when I was arrested for a simple mistake in trying to exchange my GB licence for a Polish driving licence as they were very helpful in providing a translator lol

You can read about it https://polishforums.com/archives/2005-2009/life/trials-tribulations-trying-obtain-13993/

These bas**rds in polish offices !!! its not only you, we all have to deal with their incompetency all the time ( mean Polish as well ), personally I am from Lublin and that village suffer lack of quality as well even today after 20 years collapsing that sh0t

Polish office

Damn what a thread...i can't believe no one has stepped forward to curse everyone out for bashing Poland, thats usually what happens, where's Grzegorz?

What's a pesel?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PESEL

I think that it isn't any kind of discrimination. Polish people deal with all this problems all the time.

Something is changing but bureacracy and strange rules are still here.

It's a new thing then, isn't?


I like his way of thinking; basically, what he is saying is: "They're not just being ******** to you, they're being ******** to everybody! They are equal opportunity ********."

Yeah, that makes sense.

No one is bashing Poland here at least not from my point of view, but you have only been here a few months and when you have lived here for a few years you will understand what problems are dealt with by Polish and us foreigners alike.


No PESEL has been around since 1979.


So we here living in Poland bend over and take it just the same as everyone else, except it's kinda hard taking it when you have been use to another system "not perfect", but easier :)

When I put my house building plans into the Gmina planning office, I had to have an inspection of my building plot (parcel for our American friends), so the planning officer came out and he was learning English at the time and was very excited to meet me.

So we sat down and were talking about many subjects nothing related to the house and I offered him a drink, which he replied, thank you yes.

So after three hours of sitting drinking beer and talking on a lovely summers evening, he said he must go, and I said to him what about the inspection, he replied, "if I did the inspection now, I might find a lot of problems, so I think it is best if we just say that, it's good, no problems".

I'm not moaning about this at all, and he is a friend now and comes for conversation lessons (including the beer of course :) ), but it's just another way how "flexible", decisions are made in this country. :)

I think the Poles think the same as the Brits,,but trust me incompetance is all over the world, I worked for a company for 4 years and they paid my NI to the wrong number for that period, it took 6 years to get it sorted out with government offices, even though I had all my payslips to prove it!...I always check my NI number on pay slips now :) There are lots of other issues that are wrong with the UK too..no system is perfect.

Oh I know what it's like believe me it doesn't take very long to get acquainted with the Polish Bureacracy, but whenever I've complained about something, and I've seen this happen to a couple of other people, we usually get the "like it or leave it" routine...

We all, both polish and brits have got plenty a tale to tell about the polish system, (and yes the british isn't so great either) and how hard it can be, and also, if you know the right people how easy it can be.

The question is, is it getting better at all? Is there light at the end of the tunnel or not? Was it like this 1 year ago, 2 years ago?

Great question, I would say yes and no.
I work in Niepolomice, I am building houses there and I have been to the town hal and met the Major of that town, well I have Never seen anything so nice as the town hall there, it is renovated and looks amazing, they boast that anyone can come in and they will help you "in your own language", the people working there are obviously happy and as a result are happy to help. The major is fantastic, he got voted best major in Poland a couple of months ago, he is easy to approach, helpful and considerate of "his people". so a big YES, he might go for major of Krakow but there seems to be political power struggles there (going a bit off topic?)

Then I must go t Weilcka, to their offices, it looks like a prison, the people are obviously unhappy and therefore unhelpful. I hate going there, I always get annoyed and frustrated.

The big one for me is Weilicka is one of the biggest tourist attractions in Poland, where does the money go? how come the town looks so underdeveloped?

Whilst Niepolomice was one of the poorest towns in Molopolska and with great leadership and a clever plan the place is now one of the richest. There are about 50 factories there including Man trucks, Cokeacola etc...

I could go on and on but I will send you all to sleep

I think the bureaucracy is getting better, but very slowly and rather unevenly, as SeanBM has pointed out. It's still a long road to anything resembling a normal system.

I'm wondering how long it's going to take politicians to figure out that the state they represent and therefore they themselves would be a whole lot less reprehensible for average Poles if you didn't have to run around with a stack of papers for official permission in triplicate every time you wanted to sneeze.

Take for instance a building permit - you have to get a whole mess of papers from various public offices in order to get it. Now how difficult would it be for the building permit office to simply get that information from the others, seeing as they all represent public authorities? I can understand supplying personal or business information, but why do I have to go to the gmina office so I can take something from them to the powiat office? Wouldn't it be simpler for them to do it directly? That would also avoid having everything authorized, stamped, fingerprinted, signed, spit-on-over-the-shoulder and whatever other old time magick the officials require, because there'd be no question about the documents' authenticity. And you could hire a whole bunch of friends-of-rabbit to do the correspondence, so everyone would be happy.

Great. My local mayor got right royally caught with his hand in the cookie jar and is now taking a brief vacation whilst corruption charges are prepared.

The city he represented has undergone phenomenal development in recent years and staggering amounts of money have changed hands, especially over choice bits of local realestate, with a fat cut going his way, naturally. He was finally caught when taped discussing kickbacks from a proposed attic convertion project.

it is all over the press. Too bad because it was going so well. Do you think that he is the only one. There is so much money to be made in such a way in Poland;)

Yes Yes and Yes.
But I do not think corruption is the biggest problem here. I think it is because of disorganization. I kinda understand that the rules here change every hour and nobody ever knows which rules or in or out and therefore they ask for All documentation because if they stamp it they are responsible but for feck sake...

There are still lots of diamonds in the rough here and it just takes a good person to make them shine.

I agree.

Depends what type of character you are and who you know, luckily I have a influential private student who is the Starosta for the area, sort of like a Major of local region, and I use him when I have any problems with the local offices. You should see them jump when I mention his name lol

Only wish I had known him earlier, he would have solved a whole load of problems

Dont be silly ;)

dnz,

You can get your PESEL if you live here for more than 2 months. Just go to Urzad Miasta, find a room/department called "Ewidencja Ludności", or if there's no office like that, try to ask in "Sprawy obywatelskie" or something similar..

Before you'll fill the document, prepare a maiden name of your parent. I don't know is it still necessary but it was years ago. You will get your PESEL in 3-4 weeks.

After you will finally get your PESEL, you can apply for Resident Card (Karta Stalego Pobytu). Card might be helpful in renting cars etc.. as it's your official document.

Well if you make that sort of money why don't you hire someone to help you go through the process of all that?
Just delegate !
Poland is indeed a nightmare in terms of service but not worse than 90 % of European countries !
In the UK you are spoilt , not only do you have a real concept of service but people are super nice to foreigners.I love the UK!

How refreshing to hear this. Thank you. Glad you feel welcome.

No no ... foreign LADIES :P

I can well imagine a shock a Brit must feel when confronted with Polish bureaucracy. British bureaucratic culture is based on the assumption that legal requirements should be kept to an essential minimum and officials are meant to serve the citizen. In Poland it's quite the opposite. The greatest influence on the present-day Polish bureaucratic environment were the oppressive, Byzantine bureaucracies of the three occupants Prussia, Austria (see Kafka's 'The Trial') and especially Russia in the 19 c. You will still find the same situation in Russia - and in most post-communist countries, I suppose. Here a citizen is a humble supplicant who approaches the official, cap in hand, and must hope for his good mood. My blood pressure rises whenever I must take care of anything official and I find it difficult not to get into quarels with the staff. Perhaps, as a native I should be immune to this environment, but I'm not.

theory


assumption based on theory


theoryEverybody can make similar or completely opposite theories about above problem.

Ps where did you get that theory from? I mean about Byzantine influence?
Feliks Koneczny once wrote some similar theories
What about Mongol influence on Russia and communism's bureaucracy ? that theory could cover an explanation of crappy office behavior in Poland very nicely as well.

Sorry I am after night out so my brain doesn't work properly in English :)

Speaking as a Civil Servant working in a British Government department, the above statement is crap........I am employed to serve the Crown.

I get frustrated with the bureaucracy where I work, rules and regulations that were set in stone 150 years ago, make me feel like I'm working with one hand tied behind my back.