Bilet, controler and the Poland Police.

And soon Edinburgh ;)

I don't see why it is so difficult just to buy a damn ticket, validate it and go on your way.

My only objection is that in some places, you can't find a ticket office or machine and the drivers don't sell tickets. Take where I live - it's impossible to get a ticket anywhere within a 20 minute walk after 10pm at night. But this could be easily solved with machines on trams!

Mind you, I do have a rule - if the controllers are clearly arseholes, then I always waste their time as much as possible before giving them the ticket. If they really are paid on commission, then it'll hurt them in the pocket.

I think Krakow started that program 2 years ago. So much easier unless there is a long queue for the ticket.

I've only been stopped twice for not having a ticket. First was my first time in Krakow where I tore up the ticket after validating it, didn't know about the conductors :) Friends managed to find all the little pieces and I got away with it.

Second time I have to get the tram at 6am for work and being so sleepy I forgot to take my monthly pass, wallet ect. They asked me for ticket and I explain I forgot my wallet when I was late for work, they asked for ID and I told them that I didnt have any on me but I had my pass at home. They just buggered off while the rest of the passengers looked at me as if being foreign meant I could get away with it :D

I agree, you see it on the buses in Glasgow where you have to pay (in exact change) at the entrance of the bus. It's fine when there is only one or two people at the bus stop, but at busy times the bus can be at the stop for up to 4-5 minutes, which is unacceptable.

Or you have the mad drivers who cram everyone on then speed away while they are waiting :D

Are you kidding me? Every bus/metro/tram system in the U.S. works this way. Plenty of "busy" here too. Check out NY city. If it works for 300 000 000 people here i'm sure it would work for 40 000 000 people in Poland.

quote=delphiandomine] if the controllers are clearly arseholes[/quote]

Customer service at its best… I'm really sorry you guys have to put up with this crap over there.

You are the only person complaining about the way it is done here, everyone else seems happy enough, except for the OP who got caught not paying.


You misquoted, the quote was:

That part is not difficult at all but It's the service you get when you get "caught". I don't understand why the conductor just didn't let him validate the damn ticket.

hello, I’m form the Tram service, do you have a valid ticket? oh ok, Go ahead and validate it please. Thank you for choosing our Tram service.

Sounds too silly, right?

Because he was sitting in his seat twiddling his thumbs, not paying for his fare.


Yes, it does, the guy gets on a tram, doesn't buy a ticket, sits on his hands and gets caught.

oh, I hope that when Poland changes their system, they'll go straight to wireless.

I'm sorry.


That is such a "The Soup Nazi" system. F-it i would just buy a car and never use it.

I don't even want to think about the delays to public transport caused by everyone having to validate a ticket upon entry. Even London doesn't have this system for buses and trams - it's simply not practical or efficient to check everyone. And even a significant portion of the Tube doesn't have ticket barriers.

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/NewOrleansHudRedStreetcarsCanalStreet.jpg

Look at the queue here - it might work for tourists, but it just doesn't work when you have plenty of people needing to get on and off at every stop. The average tram stop is what, 15-20 seconds? If you had everyone validating tickets or passes upon entry, that time would significantly increase. And also - who the hell wants the inconvenience of having to wait behind people who can't find their ticket?

Perhaps this explains why no-one uses public transportation in America?

The only thing people complain about here is the attitude of the controllers, not the system itself.


Yes, because everyone would just carry an unvalidated ticket then. Don't forget that timed tickets are also used in some places - it's very common for people in Poznan to buy a 15 minute ticket and not bother to validate it for the first part of their journey, especially in the suburbs where you virtually never see a controller.

f stop - we do have wireless tickets, I have one :)

(incidentally, you can buy tickets using a mobile phone too, but the system is a bit crap)


Some of them are perfectly pleasant about it - let's be realistic, it's not a job that most people would want to do, given the abuse that you have to suffer.

The system is fine, you are the only one complaining, the comparisons you are drawing are sheer ludicrous by anyone's standards.
Were you so traumatised twenty five years ago, that you can't understand that when someone tried to get on public transport without paying for the ticket they are fined? not shot, not terrorised, not a Nazis system, just fined?

:)

I would agree with you here Sean. If the system was as Havok says then I would just buy one ticket and never validate it unless a controller came on, and I normally only see them once or twice a month. I would not be the only person thinking this. Can you see anyone validating their ticket if they knew they didn't have to?

People might complain about the current system, but it works. Most people buy tickets and validate them. If they don't then they get fined, it's simple and the trams are all pretty efficient (except the 13 in Kraków which for some reason is always at random times). Compared to the buses and trains back in Glasgow they are a dream!

Never had a strict time, generally cos the newer trams get priority, 24 and 8. And 13 gets stuck behind them next to ur place ;)

You do agree with me, he says it sounds silly and I said yes, it does.

Of course not many people would validate their tickets if noone checked.

And the OP didn't do it, got caught and should not have been allowed to validate his ticket after getting caught, that would defeat the whole purpose... :)

This thread is a bit silly now.

Not practical, what about cost/efficiency?
You wanna ride? Please pay before you get on. Find a way to make it work.

You can't catch everyone, there are not enough tram-cops... Was the Polish mass transit near the bankruptcy once or twice?
Also, who is paying for the real cop to show up there? That's right, your tax money at work. Nice system. Why change it. It obviously works.


People in the city do use it a lot. Outside of metropolises it's easer to travel by car. U.S. is f-ing huge and everything is spread out a lot more.

I'll have whatever u have been drinking

I'm sorry, maybe i've missed something. Do cops get paid in Poland?

What happens in the US if you get on a train without paying or buying a ticket?

you get 10 years public works for that in TX... ;)

The fact that I still remember this silly event after so many years speaks for itself.

I'm not complaining, I don't have to use it. I'm trying to point out how inefficient and outdated it is. Many of the European countries just pour money into it but Poland isn't that rich. Make it pay for itself or just close it down and let the private sector pick it up again.


Come down and find out. Simply you gotta buy a ticket to get on the bus.
If you refuse you get shot in the face without any questions asked. In TX bullets are cheap.

Havok,

Technically current system maximizes passenger throughput.
Also majority of regular commuters do use monthly etc. passes (it is cheaper)
reducing the time they spend on interaction with ticketing system to near zero (the only time spent is occasional interaction with controller).

This is achieved without any investment in technical infrastructure for period pass riders (single ride tickets need validating machines though)

No other solution can best that as far as passenger time is concerned.
Of course the economics need to be considered: salaries of controllers, frequency of police intervention vs cost of technical infrastructure but I'm sure the transportation companies did that math.

In fact I would not be surprised if they considered total elimination of single ride tickets as the best solution (most profitable) but this would not be politically feasible.

As a pass rider I would loathe to put up with any kind of ticket system hassle or cost (wireless or not)

BTW if you forget the monthly pass you will not pay a fine.
You can give controller your personal info (address) and you will need to come to their office some time later to show your valid pass.

It's much more efficient to have an honour system than it is to install machinery. For a start, if the machine breaks - then what? Taking the tram/bus out of service is inefficient, there's a cost attached to the machinery, and it slows down the service drastically. There are buses here with 4 entrances and exits - who wants to wait 5 minutes while all the old people find their tickets or passes?

Let's not forget that a machine isn't capable of judging entitlement - so you can quite easily have people travelling on child fares, completely uncontrolled.

Let's not forget that fines are also a source of revenue - with a 200zl fine if not paid within 7 days in Poznan, it soon adds up for the transport authority.


Funnily enough, the private sector also relies on the honour system in most cases. And also, I know the concept of "subsidy" is beyond Americans, but do you really think most public transport networks can run without subsidy? The UK shows what happens when you let the private sector in - costs increase dramatically in many cases.

Meetings, meetings all day... Anyway
This is not about maximizing passenger throughput but about simple profitability.

In your current system there is no way of telling how many customers gets away without paying for the service on daily basis. It's impossible to calculate loses therefore it's unattainable to reform it.

I'm really beginning to question Poland's future. In essence you need to reform your thought process.

It's a ripple effect. Profitability is allowing for competition and competition can lead to better service. (Nicer busses, better service)... economics 101.

In the future, before you start building metros and new highways make sure you know how to make money on it and not the other way around.

Never heard of statistical analysis?

As I said - Berlin and many other cities work on exactly this principle. Guess what - they don't have a problem. And in case you hadn't noticed - most people pay.

(anyway, even if you validate a ticket upon entry, how do you control the losses when someone stays on the bus/tram for longer than allowed?)


Economics 102, which if you had attended, you would know that deregulation of public transport often leads to monopoly situations which the operators then demand subsidy to run routes. The UK, home of the deregulated market has experienced just that. It is often cheaper and more efficient to keep a service "in house" than to go private - not withstanding the fact that the private sector will very rarely fund the improvements needed by themselves.

Anyway, last time I checked, Amtrak was sucking up $2.6 billion dollars a year. You might also want to ask why the flagship MTA in New York is sucking up roughly a billion dollars a year. I mean - efficient? Hardly.


You might want to start by explaining why you subsidise public transport so much in America.

...



I was referring to "making money"... a business, nothing personal. Cash out, more cash in...


If you don't have money for it than you ride a horse or run to work… If you're rich and there is an underlining business need, for example in a city that makes a lot of money form businesses, than subsidizing is not a bad idea. You'll make that money back in taxes anyway...



Berlin, Philadelphia or NY city make more money alone than 3 Polands together.... headquarters of multibillion corporations etc. of course they can afford this kind of system of mass transit. They are making that money back in taxes.


So when Polish businessmen come down they feel more like at home. J/k


If I got this as a contract job ...

- install $30 camera on the bus to document/research the problem.
- create database with my findings $100.
- analysis and proposal where to create "reset points" to minimize this possibility.
- research what other companies charge do do this

Estimated increase in profits for the bus transit line $1 mill a year. They make money I make money...

- bil'em $100K

A smile on their face, priceless.

I know it’s a silly example,,, in essence this is how you grow/do business here though.

indeed, and this is precisely how you want the business to be done anywhere else, correct?

Nope, it’s not the point.
Laws are different, circumstances etc whatever... the mechanics of what I’m trying to explain can work in a rainforest village. I know it because I have experienced it. Not the rainforest part though. lol

On the other hand, Poland is full of highly educated people with no work experience.
You educate your young and than let them leave to England.
All they do there is wipe a$ses... When they come back to Poland they're still book smart but the only experience they have is in as$ wiping. This is the future of your country.

Do something…

Why are you writing such nonsense?
You have gone from telling us that you were traumatized as a child, to the terror of the tram service, then called it a ''Nazi soup'' system, now you are telling us about Polish people wiping asses, you're off your head :)

I can see you won't let this go but I just thought I'd do a quick summary because we are on the third page of a very simple matter.