I heard that because of the strong religious background, there is a strong taboo about homosexuality in Polish culture. Is this true? What about the poles who are living in the UK? Are they more open about such things because they are living outside Poland?
I am only curious about the general attitude. Hope this question won't upset anyone.
Hi dc-uk... Touchy Subject. You know, To each...there own. Live and let live, all that stuff...I have a few " Good friends which choose this life-style", and they are the best. They never call in sick, would tie your shoe for you...and never have to pay child support! But one thing did stick out, ( No punn intended ) My friend told me once that " If Time and Space are curved...Where did all the straight people come from? " Thank's.
When the Boston Gay Choir from the US was performing in Poland in 2005, some demonstrators were against their performance and others were for it. But the choir director said that there is more fighting against the choir going on in the US than in Poland.
I heard that because of the strong religious background, there is a strong taboo about homosexuality in Polish culture. Is this true?
Majority of Poles view sexuality as a very personal and intimate sphere and they think that it should remain that way. Whatever you do in the privacy of your bedroom should remain in its doors. All those homosexual demos are viewed more as a manifestation of ones sexual preferences rather than as a fight for homosexual's civil rights. Basically the attitude of polish society could be summed up by " Do what ever you like to do, but don't force others to watch it." Majority of people are willing to agree about a legalization of homosexual relationships. The situation differs when it come for child adoption.
Thank you for all the replies. Just curious if any Polish guy living in the UK would like to comment? Do you think you will ever bring home a boyfriend if you choose that life-style? Will it be too much for the community to know about you?
Will it be too much for the community to know about you?
Depends. If you would go to a little town or to a village expect that some people will talk behind your back, which isn't dangerous, but definitely can be irritating. In a bigger city nobody would basically care. Well maybe except the parents and relatives. If they knew about their boy's preference earlier, everything should be OK. If they didn't I'm sure they would be in shock.
There are at least 3 gay lecturers at my University, and nobody cares. Though you would have to watch out for the steroids and hooligans. They like to fight and everything can be a pretext for them. Peoples look, walk, behavior, etc, but than again you get those people everywhere...
A survey conducted in Poland earlier this month (August 2009) showed that 75% of Poles opposed homosexual "marriage" and 87% were against adoption by same-sex couples.
Maybe on day morally flabby, decadent Old Europe will wise up and see the error of their ways. Religion and morality aside, but in terms of basic human decency, is it advisable and ethical to place orphans, who have already had their share of personal traumas as a result of abandonment or a dysfunctional family setting, into a home marked by:
-- shorter-term relationships compared to hetero averages -- higher level of promiscuity (mutliple partners) -- a higher level of domestic violence -- a higher level of substance abuse -- poorer overall health -- earlier average death of adoptive "parents".
I must be having a hard time understanding this. At first you are relaying the point about Polish and the overwhelming opposition to homosexuality and their adopting children. Then you say it's advisable and ethical to place orphans in these horrible homes.
I'm only to assume that you are being sarcastic.
Look at the numbers of hetero vs. homo. Homosexuality is a small percentage of the population of the world. In theory, the great thing about averaging in statistics is that it is even. I think that at this point in the history of the coming out of homosexuals, there are a lot of other factors to consider. The main being the fact that homosexuals are often time emotionally distressed. Especially at a younger age. My brother for example is a 17 year old out of the closet homosexual. This is very hard on him and even at his young age, he cannot handle being in a relationship. There are a lot of psychological problems that come from hiding who you are from the world for an extended period of time.
I'm not saying that those statistics are false at all. I just think that if a nice stable couple who just happens to be same sex wants to adopt a child they should be able to. The same way a hetero sexual couple who is sane and stable and loving. Statistics like these could go very far and be quite ridiculous. Look at black people. Are you going to deny a black couple the right to adopt because the fathers more commonly desert the family? Because they commonly do crack and are in gangs? I wonder what the statistics look like for black people (At least in America. I live in the United States in Chicago so that's what I'm going by.)
When ANY couple wants to adopt a child, the adoption agency should really make sure that the family is a good safe environment for a child to be raised. If an adoption agency going to the house of ANY couple and seeing beer cans on the floor, they are going to be denied the right to adopt a child. That should be standard. A psychological test should be done on hetero or homo sexual couples.
I guess I could go on forever but it just seems like the same rights should be available for single men, or single woman, married couples, or unmarried couples, and gay couples, or straight couples...
After being confronted with your information about adoption, I plan to look into different statistics other things. Such as, the process of adoption and what ways they gage whether or not the home is fit for a "tramatized orphan", is there discrimination upon black people adopting children based upon the statistics that they generally have, and most importantly, how children feel and the type of person they grow up to be when they have been raise by a same sex couple. I imagine they are beautiful people who except people from all walks of life no matter how different they are... Which is what everyone, in my opinion, needs to do better, be more than tolerant or compassionate, but understanding and excited to meet someone different!
Thank you for sharing those statistics with me. They really made me think.
Regarding my first point about the emotional problems that arise from being homosexual, I just want to finish that point by saying that if homosexuality was more accepted by fellow human beings, I think the numbers would significantly go down on the life spam of them, and the anger they have which allegedly makes them violent in their domestic relationships, It would definitely decrease the number of substance abusers in the gay community because they wouldn't have to use chemicals to feel happy and to escape the hatred that they deal with on a daily basis, When the number of substance abuse goes down, the average health will go up because there will be no reason to pollute their bodies.
These statistics exist because of the way that they are forced to live. They are not accepted and therefor feel horrible about themselves and think that they are worthless. Regardless of sexuality, anyone that has a horrible self esteem and feels unloved by the world is going to go out and have sex, and do drugs, and party. That's WHY (on average) people become drug addicts and excessively party and have sex with everyone they meet. They are looking for love and happiness and validation! If they can get that from their fellow citizens and if they are treated as human being and as fellow citizens with the same human rights as everyone else regardless of sexuality, then I KNOW that those statistics will then be fasle. They will have changed and the gay community will finally be able to show their true beautiful colors to the world. It's just a matter of letting them do that.
Hania - I wasn't being sarcastic, but asked: Is it advisable....unfortunately I forgot to close it off with a query (?). You may well be right that violent and substance-linked behaviour are byproducts of homosexual misfits who feel unwanted, misudnerstood, etc. All except the promiscuity (short-term relationships, multiple partners) which has been shown to be an inherent element of what that "orientation" is all about. Homos themselves admit that promiscuity is part and parcel of their overall lifestyle.
Probably homo lfie expectancy could be increased if they cleaned up theri act re substance abuse and violence, but the myriad infections (HIV is but one of them) they subject themselves to through rectal penetration, rimming, "bringing gifts" and other sexual behaviour would probably still continue taking their toll.
I think a good way to discuss homosexuality would be to stop for a while all those religious considerations and raise the question whether human homosexuality is "normal" or not from a scientific point of view. Some time ago I discussed it with a friend who is a professional psychotherapist working at the University Hospital in my city, in Belgium. She told me this:
Human homosexuality is the result of a genetic flaw combined to a psychic trauma. 1. First of all, it is a genetic "accident" having to do with chromosomes that will set the risk for a Human to become a homosexual, as potentially he will instinctively be attracted by same-sex persons.
2. There is afterwards a psychic factor which will work (or not) as a catalyst which will make the person definitely be "actively" homosexual. It will work or not depending on how the person will react when she builds her sexual identity through his experiences (since childhood) and also the way society behaves in return to her -- and society also includes parents. There are patterns where, for example, a homosexual male very often is a man who had an "abusing" mother and a "missing" father. It is not 100% of the cases but it's the vast majority.
Anyway, the consequence of all this is that human homosexuality can in NO WAY be considered as something "normal", something "natural". It is important to specify "human", for some other species do naturally reproduce through "intercourse" between two same-sex individuals. Humans don't, period! An other consideration is the requirement, in order to get a better balanced child, to have him grow up with a reference model for parents made of a male and a female, not two males or two females.
I take the opportunity to talk about transsexuals. When a person feels so bad as a man or a woman that she wants to change sex, it is again certainly not something to be considered normal. After surgery, several patients commit suicide when they realize that their problem is not solved and they are not happier than they were before. Of course it's not solved! Those cases are simply for psychiatry, not surgery...
When it comes to whether homosexuality should be socially normalized or not, for example by granting gays and lesbians the right of getting married or raise children... As far as I'm concerned, I'm against such rights because I consider that the role of the State is to keep a consistent society through sets of laws allowing the majority of people to live together in a consistent way. I'm tired of all those minority activists who want to turn society upside down sothat each individual could fully and selfishly live his specificity, especially for something as "twisted" as homosexuality.
In the times of political correctness where everything different than the average should be accepted as "normal", it would be good to remember that homosexuality is a medical problem before anything else. And religion has nothing to do with it.
Human homosexuality is the result of a genetic flaw
A gentic flaw which affects an estimated 5% of the global population. A genetic flaw which has existed for as long as humans. Whats more, a gentic flaw which effects nobody other than those "inflicted". I'd say that this genetic flaw is naturally occurring. A bit like the recessive ginger gene.
An other consideration is the requirement, in order to get a better balanced child
It depends totally on the individuals. A caring same sex couple would be far beter than a drug addicted, abusive heterosexual couple. You can't apply a reference model to individual humans.
Thread attached on merging: Current State Of Acceptancy of Homosexuality in Poland
Two years ago Homosexuality was hardly accepted in Poland. I was just wondering how the state of things are currently. Has any progress been made on this? Anybody can enlighten me on this point?
Normal reactions, pls. And before you make remarks, no, I am not gay. I just have a lot of homosexual friends (some of them Polish) and they're decent ppl. The Polish ones would love to go home to visit their family, but dread it that they have to do so "undercover" as their families definitively wouldn't accept it when they knew they were gay.
I might not be able to respond to comments, remarks or opinions immediately because I leave my house soon for the match :) I probably be back online again either late tonight or tomorrow morning. So, pls don't take offence and think that I'm not interested in your opinions, I am simply not online :)
If they are not willing to come out of the closet then level of acceptance will not change, right? I know quite a few who have come out of the closet and it serves them well.
Both presidential candidates - Komorowski and Kaczyński as well as their respective parties - have said during the campaign that under existing Polish law such people are able to deal with problems of inheritance and mutual healthcare (visiting their partners in hospital, etc.) without enacting new legislation. But marriage and adoption of orphans is out, as the Polish constitution defines marriage as a union between a man and woman. It would require a change of the constitution to allow that, and a majrotiy of Poels are opposed. Homosexuals are not discriminated against by Polish laws and are free to sodomise each other all they want in the privacy of their homes. They are even allowed to hold lewd, noisly streert parades which many parents find highly offensive. Even though homosoxuals are many times more likely to be carrriers of STDs, no laws prevent them working in sensitive medical- and hygiene-related areas. But would you want your mother, wife or GF treated by a HIV-positive dentist?
In ancient Greece male homosexuality was accepted and even encouraged. They screwed young boys left and right. Then the Greeks progressed and homosexuality began to be treated mostly as any other aberration.
If this is what you mean by progress then yes, in Poland homosexuality is still mostly considered a sexual/identity aberration and thus Poland stays abreast of progress.
no laws prevent them working in sensitive medical- and hygiene-related areas
I object to this. First of all, homosexuals do not sodomize, they have sex with one another and given that homosexuality is commonly accepted as a form of sexuality, one can no longer speak of sodomizing. Secondly, you are aware of the fact that heterosexual young men cause generally more trouble on the streets, in the bars or wherever than homosexual young men do? And finally, assuming that homosexuals are more prone to STD's is a gross misstatement. It all depends on whether you have safe sex or not. A girl who sleeps unprotected with multiple men over a prolonged period of time has just as much chance of getting a STD as a homosexual man with the same behaviour has. It's just a matter of common sense and most homosexuals use condoms when sleeping with different partners. When they're monogamous and sleep with the same partner only then this isn't necessary, but that's the same with a woman who sleeps with one man only. Stating it like this is giving evidence that you haven't accept homosexuality as a given within society yet.
In ancient Greece male homosexuality was accepted and even encouraged
Actually, it wasn't until the event of the Bible that homosexuality was looked upon as a deviation. Before that, homosexuality was a generally accepted phenomenae in Greek, Roman or any other ancient society.
All I meant to say is that your friends, by sticking to the closet, will not change peoples' attitude towards homosexuality. The acceptance can only grow if more gays/lesbians come out of the closet! As to them being abused.... I haven't heard of such cases at all recently, they rarely occur or get reported, I guess. Then again you will find homophobic bullies even in gay loving countries.
The acceptance can only grow if more gays/lesbians come out of the closet!
I agree to that. But I think it has to come from both sides. Some of them love their family too much to run the risk being kicked out for coming out. I think education is necessary and once ppl know that it's not dangerous in a sense that every gay man will try to seduce a straight man (same goes for lesbian women), then I think the step to acceptance is much smaller than without any education.
True, in NL there are gaybashers too. Just like in every country. But in generally, homosexuality is accepted as is.
Edit:
Furthermore, I am curious in how far it was a culture-shock for Poles coming into the UK, NL, US, countries where homosexuality in general is accepted. How did they cope with that? (I could start another thread about that, but I am afraid that the mods will merge it into this one, so that's why I put is as a sidenote in here).
Sodomy is a sin against G-d. Most of Europe is becoming gay and childless.. Perhaps its just a matter of time that Poland follows its neighbors, Germany, Sweden and Norway. After all, a childless nation full of men in leather and women with butch cuts giving birth to test tube babies is considered progress, right??
