Stereotypes abound. Not advisable either to judge a people by their politics, considering for example the English are basically honest by nature-:) Curious too as to from where this image of Poles as a disorganized nation originated. Surely not from the Poles themselveslol
Poland has the worse bureaucracy I have ever experienced. The bureaucrats are that kind of people who enjoy (and they really do) to make other people's life miserable. A simple bureaucratic procedure can take AGES. This creates a lot of frustration among the normal people who deal with the inefficient polish bureaucracy. I want to add, that that bureaucracy stops poland to develop in many ways. Instead of making something productive, a huge part of your work and effort goes into useless and bad organized bureaucracy. In many cases when international companies deal with this patetic bureaucracy they better get out of the country and take their investments with them.
The polish road system is under-under-developed. They have been building highways recently ONLY because the EU is funding. Otherwise, there won't be highways. The polish highways are the only ones in the world which need reparation before they are opend to the public. This is because the construction workers, steal some of the asfalt they use and sell it to get some money out of it. In the long term those highways are much more expensive. For instance, in the highway from katowice to krakow , (which is always under reparation) there are 2 places where you need to pay highway fee. This is 8 zl in each. Which means that a trip from katowice to krakow and back makes 32 zl ONLY in highway only for 60 km. This is the most expensive highway in europe. If we look to the other countries in which they have a vignette, and a developed highway system, it is by far much more cheaper to use the highways. The inefficency in polish administration does not take into account the salaries that need to be paid to those useless people working, charging the highways fees PLUS the lost-time of stoping in queue for paying. In winter, it can take you half an hour time just to wait in queue until you are able to pay. This example shows that apparently common sense does not exist among polish administration.
The germans also have a stereotype of the poles of stealing, damaging cars for no reason. FULLY TRUTH. From my experience, they scratch your car just for fun and jump on it. I should had heard the germans.
There are many other examples that show poland to be a mess. The more I know the poles, the more I am convinced that this country will never develop due to their mentality of f*cking each other. Until that mentality does not chage (which could take 2 generations at least) Poland will never prosper.
Conveying one side of things but quite accurate nonetheless. As I said in another thread, many Poles are fed up of one another and it shows in bureaucratic establishments. They treat one another with contempt. I can't go into the tax office without laughing at how serious some people are.
However, that doesn't speak to the degree of organisation that can be found. They seem to know their jobs well and I've had positive experiences. They expedited my wedding when not duty bound to do so. You can't blame those that are merely following protocol, roca. There are too many layers sometimes, yes, but they are contracted to do things in a certain way. Besides, it's hard to break out of the mould and be yourself in such a place. There is a certain atmosphere there and it's hard to get away from that.
Chaotic implies 'monkey mind' to me. The Poles tend to be pretty calm as clerks in administrative centres. They are not scatty and tend to be meticulous, overly so sometimes. However, they can be snappy but hey, we are only human, right?
Oh yes it is. Check the first page. I've already said it's a common inner stereotype among Poles. Look, I'm a Pole and I say it. Also look at the comment by Wroclaw 666 on page 2. Why so you think that Poles can't be self-critical?
Noone's denying that, a.k., only that most who critical of "foreigners" tend to be foreigners themselves, at least in my experience.
Who's written most convincingly on anti-semitism, for instance? Jews or gentiles? Until recently, gentiles avoided the subject like the plague. Up til now, for most Geman non-Jews, the Hitler period's still a gaping black hole. Typically, only Jews touch it, and mostly foreign-born ones at that.
The bureaucrats are that kind of people who enjoy (and they really do) to make other people's life miserable.
This is the same behavior I observe here amongst strangers both pedestrian and motorists- POLES GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO GET INTO ONE ANOTHER'S WAY, as long as they're strangers that is.
Apparently the bureaucrats are really helpful.It says so here:
opole.uw.gov.pl/1angielski/index.php
In the spirit of service for the country and drawing upon the finest traditions of reliable and friendly administration, we are a modern public institution which caters for the needs of residents of the Opolskie Province.
I found Poland to be very modern,organised and so on - I was actually really disappointed and felt like I was still in australia, but then i had just come from budapest which is nice and worn completely full of character and creative spirit.I hope poland does not become like germany or really developed like Australia just soulless cities with just malls and ugly modern builidings everywhere and where you have to search for character.
Is being overly "organized" such a good thing? I would not want Poles to follow orders of some fuhrer without a question... Is OP an American? I base this on my impression that the Americans find Germany to be the closest foreign country in mentality. Just like after WW2 they came to Germany as conquerors and punishers, but instantly fell in love with the people.
Of course, language / culture wise they more in common with the Brits, but when it comes to the of their mode of coexistence and general mentality it seems to me they are a lot like germans (valuing: reliability, respect of other peoples property, efficiency, industriousness etc).
So I think they may also have a lot in common with the German ignorance, meaning that something is all right if only the majority of Germans thinks it is all right.
Americans are very similar to the Germans in their self-righteousness.
The French for example, are completely different people in this respect
and i'd like to add: the Germans were easily manipulated and brainwashed by a maniac to the point of murdering millions, many of which were in cold blood. The Americans are also easily manipulated by their governments and media.
moved from Germans and Poles are no different when it comes to perceived rudeness. The point is that most folks from the Anglosphere don't get that the Germans' and Poles' behavior isn't rude at all. They are direct and straight in your face, while the Anglos (pretending to be nicey nice) beat around the bush for a million years before they finally come to the point - smiling constantly, of course, while at the same time thinking about how they can backstab you... :)
"They are direct and straight in your face" so true this is a big cultural difference, but at least you know where you stand , but it is bad news when you go to the supermarket checkout and everything gets thrown at you, the cashier boy is having a bad day, and for sure he is letting everyone know about it.
I think a great deal of this discussion to date sounds like cultural stereotyping, although many a cultural stereotype is based upon certain collective experiences. While it is true for instance that many Germans DO pride themselves on a high degree of organizational ability, there are plenty of organized as well scores of disorganized Germans, the latter merely confirming the exception to the "rule".
When once in Spain on business some years ago, I was expecting a lazy country, more used to a siesta than a hard day's work.
My co-workers even put my "American"/Protestant-Northern European work ethic to shame. Furthermore, long after Franco, the siesta after lunchtime has virtually been abolished:-)
The current Refugee Crisis in Germany is ain some ways a byproduct of German society being extremely order and authority based. Germans are to an extent gullible towards Government. They believe what the Government run media spoon feeds them. This is why the Nazis prospered and why refugees are allowed to run amok today. If the Government says so, the German follows along obediently.
Germany has become far less orderly over the past several years of Merkel's chancellorship! This image did conform to reality up through the end of the 80's and into the early 90's to be sure. Now though, it's basically over. While old habits do die hard, the younger the Germans, the more multi-culti and even the '68ers are considered old hat by the current generation:-)
