English family in Wroclaw!

They are coming from the UK, where you are getting slowing earnings growth and rising inflation. Over the next 2 or 3 years things will not improve there due to brexit. While here you are getting strong growth in both GDP and earnings while inflation is just slowly starting to pick up. A great set of conditions and its why there are over 100,000 Ukrainians working in Wroclaw, supporting the economy, doing often low paid jobs that Poles don't want to do anymore (sound familiar?). These Ukranians are no longer renting 10 to a bedsit but are now taking out mortgages on flats are are preparing to settle here, given the unstable state of the Ukranian and its uncertain future.

As for the Gringo tax, I dont think it applies as much in a big city like Wroclaw. In the little hick towns maybe where you get chancers with nothing to lose, but in places like Wroclaw most people are afraid of losing their jobs and reputations over skimming something off a client. It happens no doubt but less so. You sign a contract, pay and demand, its usually that simple. As with anything, if too good to be true them often it will be, but that can be said of just about anywhere or anything.

As I said before not sure its desirable to live in an english speaking bubble and the OPs wife is polish so Im sure there will be some family to show them the ropes early on. There is a big difference between those with family and connections to Poland versus british expats starting from scratch.

There's a lot more to the Gringo tax than deception.

In Poland, the cost of education in a good English-medium school is very high. A foreigner is going to have to pay up to 4000 PLN per child per month for a good school the likes of which a Pole can get for free.

Then there is the simple fact of not being familiar with local prices, consumer habits and best retail outlets. For example, we just had a post from a Swede here that thought that paying 2800 PLN for an apartment in Łódź for a couple earning 6000 PLN net was OK. That's about 1000 PLN a month in gringo tax right there.

Then there is having to buy what Poles can get from friends or family either at no cost or at low cost. I was going to buy a food processor in Poland until a Polish friend told me that his parents had one at home that they never used. They were happy to part with it for 20 PLN. Hand-me-downs for kids is another way Poles spend far less than foreigner.

Or, a common theme on this forum, getting foodstuffs from back home rather than using local products. Or eating beef or lamb rather than adapting to pork and chicken. Or buying your food at the supermarket rather than at local shops or the farmers market. Or shopping in the city rather than in the village.

Or simply not being able to read the labels or ask questions because you don't know the language.

Some people will try to skimp and save, others may value their time more highly and pay for convenience. Local shops and markets are often pricer anyway and the fruit isnt always fresh either. As always you need to shop around to find out where you can buy what you like. There's no reason to miss out on beef lamb duck or any other meat, our local Lidl has a lot to offer in that category and weve never had any problems quality wise. Local butchers can be quite pricy but if you are after something specific and freshly cut, then thats where you'll need to go.

I dont see any reason to pay for private schools in Poland. If entrance is exam based, then possibly, but I dont see any reason to send a child to fee paying school just because it fee paying. My experience is exam based private school as back in the UK, are worth it, otherwise I dont see a need.

As I said before the posters wife is Polish and so a lot of the situations you mentioned above wont be a problem. As I said theres a big difference between an expat and someone going back with roots.

The article's, not mine. The figure (as the article implied) is likely to be higher now.


Most probably do.


You didn't check the Internations group or the facebook pages then...

Knowing some English =/= wanting to hang out and socialize with native speakers (as opposed with Poles or others who speak the same first langauge)

Dominic, that comment is just plain silly. The OP is from England. We do actually eat pork and chicken in the UK (quite a bit even), and every supermarket in Poland sells beef. There are cows in Poland. Even lamb, never a favourite in Germany, Poland etc) is available now.


I think you missd the point here Maf; we weren't talking about Poles who want to speak to people in English; we were talking about expats who speak English as a first or second language.

Another link for the OP, a blog called English blog for parents in Wrocław
englishmuminwroclawtown.wordpress.com

I was referring to ex-pats who know English as a second (or third, fourth...) language, probably more common than native speakers. Such people would probably prioritize contacts with those with the same first language (or with Polish people).

And then there are long term resident native speakers (comme moi) who just aren't interested in socializing in English....

This is fairly normal. The OP is looking for people very much in a similar situation to him. anyway, He could do a lot worse than look at the various links.


Comme moi aussi. No need to after three decades in Poland; everyone we know is Polish, and if they speak English, don't speak it to me. We tend to avoid expat gatherings (whether for English-speakers or for people from my OH's original country), however I do know that some people find them invaluable, particularly things like Internations.

Why would he need English-medium schooling when his wife and child are both Polish? Furthermore, fees aren't anywhere near as high as you claim. A decent IB education at the International High School of Wrocław is only 1050zł a month for those paying taxes in Wrocław, which is hardly unaffordable when even a project manager with a couple years experience can take home 10k net.

More to the point, the child will speak Polish, meaning she can take advantage of a wealth of educational opportunities in Poland.


Except the wife is Polish and therefore is going to suss the local market very quickly. More to the point, you have no idea what the Swede expected - perhaps he wanted a nice apartment with a secure parking space and 24/7 security in a very good location.


Completely irrelevant in this case, as he has a Polish wife and family.

I'd quote more, but you are treating him like an expat sent on assignment rather than an immigrant looking to integrate into society. There's plenty of decent beef and other meat available in Poland, even in Biedronka these days.

Dominic, your advice may be valid for Indians who expect to continue a certain lifestyle here, but it's null and void for mixed Polish-other families who will integrate straight into society. There's a lot of them around, especially in Wrocław and Kraków. BTW - your statistics on foreigners is also out of the window, because most EU citizens simply don't bother to register.

I may be wrong Dominics approach and thus experiences are those of a foreigner working and living in Poland on a temporary basis only.

That's my impression too.

The city has become incredibly cosmopolitan very quickly, and there are countless families out there speaking English to talk to. The OP even made it clear that he was looking for English speakers, not only Brits.

Hi Dan, I see your post has triggered a long thread, not necessarily relating to the original question. Diverting back, I am in a similar situation, my girl is a bit older though. Get in touch if you would like to meet up/share your experience etc.

Also, first political asylum-seekers from Norway, for example.

Depends for whom. I personally prefer the qualify of life in Poland - hence why I plan to permanently move there from the US.

I think OP will settle quite well into Wroclaw. I've seen tons of changes in the city from PRL times to the 90s to the pre-EU years, to the present. There's more foreigners - tourists, people on assignment, and quite a few who have settled down with a polish spouse - than ever.

Standard of living and quality of life are two different things. I've been materially better off than I am now but miserable and stressed.

A common dilemma for many Poles here in the UK. Over here it is easier to make decent money and live a better life (materially) but so many Poles yearn for the beauty of their homeland.

If you have savings from working in a western country you'll probably live a lot better in Poland with that money than in the US or UK. A lot of Polish people work abroad and come back to PL to spend their money since it'll go a lot further. I know quite a few Polams who are also planning to retire in Poland as the property taxes alone in a place like Illinois NY or California would be enough to cover a half decent existence in Poland for a year. Also, if you can get a good job in Poland or have a successful business you can be just as materially happy if not more so than many other places in the west due to the substantially lower cost of living and lower taxes - especially for properties.

Merged:

Facebook group for foreigners in Wroclaw

Hey,
I and my Scottish Fiancée are planning to move to Wroclaw in middle of 2018.
One of our fears is that Joanna can be lonely at very beginning especially with our small child.
I tried to find a fb group of foreigners in Wroclaw where we could meet similar couples or even swap some information.
I didn't find any so I opened my own one.
Please have a look
facebook.com/groups/137849303558717

Frankly, it will be a lot easier for her to meet Polish couples who can speak English than British and mixed couples with children living in Wrocław. While I'm sure the latter do exist, I never met any. The only English speaking foreigner I met with family was an American who came years ago and married a Pole.

There is a facebook group called Expats in Wrocław, but it doesn't want to load for me at the moment. There is, or was, also a group called International Friends of Wrocław. I'm sure that if you get out there and look for them, you might find a couple of British or mixed couples with kids. Check with the international schools. You might want to ask around at the British and Irish Pubs on Plac Solny. There is also a Scottish pub across from Renoma. Never been to any of them, so I can't vouch for their authenticity, but they might be able to put you in touch with some. There might be a couple of academics at the universities, too, though I never met or heard about any.

There is no British "community" in Wrocław. There are scattered Brits of various sorts, but nothing that resembles a community. If she thinks she is going to be able to operate in an English speaking bubble long term in Wrocław, and isn't gung-ho about learning Polish, then she has another think coming. You might want to reconsider moving to Poland if that's what she expects.

Most of the Brits in Wrocław fall into two broad classes: 1) Employees of British companies that are deployed short-term as consultants and technical specialists. If they have families, they practically always leave them at home. They're there to get a job done and aren't interested in socializing. And 2) assorted flotsam and jetsam, young backpackers, slackers, horny boys hoping to score, idiots who came to Poland with their Polish "girlfriends" who told them they could strike it rich there. Predominantly single males, often with alcohol problems. Not the type of people you're looking for.

Actual British and mixed couples are a distinct minority, and those with children even fewer. If you're planning on staying in Poland for long, then your wife should intensively study Polish, morning, noon and night. Even if she works her a$$ off, it will take her a few years to become conversant. Be super-ultra-supportive and helpful, and make sure you never, ever do or say anything that will turn her off, or else she will slam that book shut and never open it again, and will be on the next plane back to Scotland. Be patient, but constantly motivate her to keep working hard at it.

Good luck!

Theres very few people from england but there is a fair sized expat community in wroclaw some italians some spanish Portuguese etc. Lot of ukranian migrants like 120k in wroclaw if not more. Youll meet more people from other commonwealth countries than england like india and pakistan, most of whom seem to work in it and corporate jobs. Theres also a lot of poles from wroclaw that come back and forth from england. Some students, some professionals and a lot of people that work jobs in uk then spend their money in pl or atleast have family back home

DominicB in his usual patronising mode again:)) I thought this was New Year, new start? Wots the difference Dom between flotsam and jetsam?


So the "type" of people she's obviously looking for are corporates only, right? That's fine, if you want garden parties and tedious conversation about "We........" Horses for courses, I guess.....

They are looking for the type of people who would want to hang out with a married couple with child. Most single young people don't, nor do many of the short-haul technical specialists and consultants. And, of course, that they would want to hang out with themselves. In other words, other married couples, preferably with children, who are established or settling down, not single males who are just passing through. That narrows the pool a lot. It's a lot easier to be friends with someone who shares your values, priorities, lifestyle and circumstances. What's so difficult to understand about that?

You're married yourself, and established enough that under interests in your forum profile, you wrote "Walking the dog", and major concerns of yours include when the streetlights turn on and noise from an airshow. What kind of people are you friends with with? Hopefully not beer-chugging, poontang-chasing yahoos half your age (unless you have a drinking problem yourself). Backpackers can be interesting, but they are here today, gone tomorrow.

I refer the right honourable member to the below quote, where you clearly infer that if one does not belong to the corporate culture, or are not putting out fires as some technical chappie, then you are a layabout.

I most certainly did no such thing. I refer you to the first word of that quote, "most", which means that I did not imply what you think I did, and that you inferred erroneously. (The writer implies, and the reader infers).

I appreciate that English is your second language Dom, and most wonderful and eloquent it is too. However I must object, your honour, on the grounds that the word "most" refers to the majority, and could well be taken by insinuation, to mistakingly refer to my client, by his peers - if he were, although he at the present time does not, to live in Wroclaw:))

The mistake would be entirely yours, as I was neither insinuating or implying nothing. Back to Logic 101 with you. Rumpole you are not.

Huh ? The current number of expats over there is at +100 thousand people.

So it's more than doubled - although your figure is high and probably includes Ukrainian citizens, Czechs etc...

It's an attractive place to settle, wherever you're from.


There's quite a thriving British community in Wroclaw.

Any reason why it shouldn't include?

There are over 100 thousand Ukrainians alone in Wroclaw. The rest is a much smaller number but even so.