I'm an American currently attending a university in Poland. My questions are: Why are Poles so conservative? Why are Poles so religious? Why are Poles so uptight about nudity and swearing?
Poland is the most religious country in the western world. According to the most recent CBOS opinion poll (published in the fall of 2008): 94% of Poles claim they "believe in god" and 49% of Poles say they "attend Church every week"
Nudity and swearing is always censored on Polish TV. Sunbathing topless is taboo in Poland and still illegal. The former Polish President attempted to ban mini-skirts in 2007. Here is the article about it: alarmingnews.com/tag/poland-banonminiskirts/
Poland also attempted to ban pûrnography a few years back. The majority of Poles supported Poland banning pûrn but the Polish President rejected it because he said it would create a "black market".
Abortion is still banned in Poland (even if a woman is raped or incest). Gay marriage is still banned in Poland. A 2010 study published in the newspaper Rzeczpospolita revealed that Poles overwhelmingly oppose gay marriage. 79% of Poles oppose gay marriage, with only 16% in favor. Many gays have fled Poland because they fear their lives.
Guns are banned in Poland. Online gambling is banned in Poland. And many Polish politicians want to raise the drinking age to 21.
In America, gay marriage and marijuana is legal in several states. We have hundreds of openly gay politicians and celebrities. Most polls show that the majority of Americans support legalizing gay marriage. In fact, many experts predict that Obama will legalize gay marriage during his second presidential term.
We are the largest producers of pûrn in the world (producing 90% of the world's pûrn). Our government would never ban pûrnography. We even have legal brothels in some states. My great state of Michigan is planning to legalize brothels and prostitution next year to reduce crime. youtube.com/watch?v=aGi431LjHB8
I visit Florida and women sunbathe topless topless wearing thongs (South Beach and Miami Beach). The GoTopless Movement is planning to have 1 million women march topless to Washington D,C, on August 21st to encourage women sunbathing topless everywhere in USA. But in Poland these girls would be arrested or fined for public indecency.
When will Poland become a liberal secular country ?
You think banning guns makes Poland conservative? That's ridic. My wife, a native Pole, is constantly awestruck by how reserved America is about sex. There's more churches per capita in this country (USA) than anywhere else in the world. When's the last time you turned on a tv on Sunday and didn't flip through 57 channels of preachers? America isn't half as progressive as she's made out to be. Spend a week in Mississippi, or Kansas, and tell me how cutting edge you think we are. Your "great state of Michigan" only just recently was able to dip below 14% unemployment, and the violent deaths there are higher than ANYWHERE in Europe. I bought prn in Poland, and it was right there on the rack, not hidden in some shady back room, or wrapped in a black bag, like it is in the states. Your thesis is flawed and wildly inaccurate.
When will Poland become a liberal secular country ?
Mike, as tolerant as you would like to seem, you are rather quite intolerant indeed or at least quite insecure about the whole secular liberlism thing that you need everybody in the world to convert to your ways
Abortion is still banned in Poland (even if a woman is raped or incest)
now you are misinformed simply, pal - in case of rape, a pregnancy being a threat to life (and I guess incest too, because it is an unlawful act like rape) Polish law allows abortion
pûrnography? boasting about it? oh my - are you serious?
Edit You provided me with no facts. But i'ii give you one :-))
FUN FACT: In 2010, Poland built the largest Jesus statue in the world surpassing Brazil and Bolivia. Here is the video: dailymotion.com/video/xiqppq_poland-builds-world-s-tallest-christ- sta tue_news
Poland has more churches per capita than any country in the developed world. About 95% of Poles say they "believe in God" and 49% of Poles say they "attend church every Sunday" (2010 survey conducted by Rzeczpospolita). Poland, Ma is the only country in the western world to still ban abortion in the 21st century.
The League of Polish Families is an ultra-conservative political party that has wide-spread support across Poland. The former President of Poland, Lech Kaczynski, referred to homosexuals as "perverts" and attempted several times to ban gay parades. Lech Kaczynsk also attempted to ban mini-skirts in 2007. Around 80% of Poles say they oppose gay marriage. Gay adoption is also illegal in Poland.
Online gambling was banned in Poland in 2011. Poland has severe restrictions on embryonic stem cell research. Swearing and nudity is almost always censored in the Polish media. I once accidently said the word "p*zda" in public and everyone flipped out. It was funny.
Here's another fun article: "Two Polish women have caused uproar in the deeply conservative and Catholic country [of Poland] by daring to sunbathe topless. Model Dorota Krzysztofek, 28, and her 'accomplice', known only as Anna K, 26, were today officially reprimanded in court for baring their breasts on a beach. In May, police officers fined Miss Krzystofek and her friend for sunbathing topless on a public beach in Szczecin. The women went to court after they failed to pay a fine of 150 zlotys (£33)."
Need i say more ? Poland is honestly more conservative than the Middle East. It makes you mad to hear the truth. I've been living in Poland for about a year now =]
My Polish friend (now living in America) even agrees with me that Poland is an extremely religious country. She is amazed at how sexual we Americans are. We have the highest teen pregnancy rate in the developed world. Just watch the popular American shows "Teen Moms" and "16 and Pregnant". It's normal for kids in USA to have sex at 14 and babies at 16. We have the largest prn industry in the world (producing 90% of the world's prn). We have legal gay marriage and marijuana in several states. We are much more progressive than Poland. Even the deep south is much more progressive than Poland. The south is where atheism is growing the fastest.
But in Poland these girls would be arrested or fined for public indecency.
They can't be arrested. They can only get a ticket. Are you sure you are a univesity student?
Poland, Ma is the only country in the western world to still ban abortion in the 21st century.
What about Ireland? In Poland one can get legal abortion if the pregnancy is caused by rape and other criminal circumstances, due to health reason or fetal defects. I like that law.
Here's another fun article:
I don't see them being arrested.
There are beach when one can be completely nude. They are called nudity beaches.
We have the highest teen pregnancy rate in the developed world.
That's a thing one should be proud, really...
We are much more progressive than Poland.
So be much more progresive than Poland. I don't want Poland be that kind of progressive. By the way, when you stop prosecute prostitutes? In Poland prostitution is not illegal, as well as in most civilized countries.
Nudity and swearing is always censored on Polish TV
No it's not but sure as hell nudity is always censored on American TV.Have anybody seen nipples shown on American TV?They are ALWAYS blurred even when context is non sexual.Go troll somewhere where people have no clue.
I agree with the OPs sentiment, although his argument is false and his examples are either misleading or outright wrong. Poland DOES have a conservative mindset, and there is very little rational debate in the Government on drugs, sexual preference, gay adoption or any of the other things you believe to be "liberal".
But if you want to compare Poland to the States; Poland enjoys more than a two-party political system. Any group can form a party and join the electoral role (with the famous example being the Beer Lovers' Party in 1991). And the number of magazines released every week that discuss these social issues, with a bias to cater for almost any political view, shows that Poland is always willing to hear the argument, even if it doesn't agree with it. Magazines like Polityka, Wprost, and Nie enjoy a large circulation; if Poland was so religiously conservative, the only media available would be the Vatican Times.
Just because a few reckless fools in Swiebodzin built a statue of Jesus wearing a Burger King crown, doesn't make Poland a nation of outrageous religious bible-bashers.
?They are ALWAYS blurred even when context is non sexual.Go troll somewhere where people have no clue.
How is it possible that in this conservative country Poland I see every evening after 10 pm commercials of sex-phones and pûrns for mobiles? There are also soft pûrns shown (in Poland we call them erotic movies not pûrns like Americans do haha).
Weird that OP hasn't hear swearing on Polish movies. There are always some curse, those from 90s are actually full of them e.g. Psy.
I have seen a group of topless girls on the beach up north. it was really embarrassing. they were taking photos of each other while they frolicked on the beach. They were making arses out of themselves. no doubt these photos were going to end up on nasza klasa. i have no problem with those who want to go topless- but no need to make everyone else aware that you are topless.
my personal favourite is the 50 year old men with g string speedo's. sick.
so you are proud of "teen mom" and "16 and pregnant"--that is fecked up. i have bigger aspirations for my two daughters than ending up on a white trash reality tv show.
nd there is very little rational debate in the Government on drugs, sexual preference, gay adoption
you know what - I would say this- we don't know if gay adoption is a reasonable thing - if we don't know and there are so many volunteers around who are so keen to have gay adoption (for whatever reason) let's just sit and wait - and see what this experiment produces - and if somebody says you have to join the experiment or you are backward village idiot I say: call me what you and you won't terrorise me with your name calling
if it takes two or three generations to know the 'fruit' of gay adoption I say - fine, we can wait that long - does it bother you?
You should mentioned that Poland has a transsexual person as a member of the parliment and a few gays, a Black person as well (even though that there is no substancial Black community in Poland).
Poland DOES have a conservative mindset,
And I'm fed up with foreigners telling Poles what is good and what is wrong. Even though I'm not a conservative person, when reading posts like OP's I wish to become one.
16 and pregnant"--that is fecked up. i have bigger aspirations for my two daughters than ending up on a white trash reality tv show.
The programme is really great but actually the message of it is different than OP thinks. It is to warn teens against early motherhood by showing the struggle of young moms. I really like he show - the girls are not white trash be any means.
These are mixed stuffes here. Yeah, Poles are religious, and proud of it. I, and not only me, dislike "gays" and other perverts. On the other hand, nudity on TV is quite normal. It always have been. It is Americans, who are widely known, to be puritan about sex. Try to google "Americans are afraid of tits". Or try to read something about Polish made cRPG game "The Witcher". It was mostly Americans, that was appalled, that the game contains nudity, and sex, and epacially complained about topless women, showing theirs nipples (so many Americans have been venting about nipples in this game, it was almost amusing)
Sorry if I sounded like I was criticizing; that wasn't my aim.
you know what - I would say this- we don't know if gay adoption is a reasonable thing
Has there been any evidence anywhere that shows it's a bad thing? Do people raised in a homosexual environment "become" gay? The answer is categorically no. But as I stated earlier, no-one in Poland is willing to openly discuss this sort of thing. Conservatism is a choice, but a choice that should only be made once the issue has been reasonably discussed.
I, and not only me, dislike "gays" and other perverts.
This is the sort of comment I mean by "no space for rational discussion".
"A Catholic member of Poland's Parliament, Artur Zawisza, is proposing a ban on miniskirts as part of a campaign against 'enticement to sex'. "It is possible that a pretty girl on the way home from a disco might get arrested," he said. Zawisza has lobbied the Justice Ministry for months to back his proposals, according to Newsweek."
cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=4787
HAHAHA Poland is such a backwards country ran by religious extremists trying to ban mini-skirts and makeup.
There are beach when one can be completely nude. They are called nudity beaches.
Every country has nude beaches. You prove nothing. The point is that women should have the right to sunbathe topless at any public beach she chooses (which is illegal in Poland).
What about Ireland? In Poland one can get legal abortion if the pregnancy is caused by rape and other criminal circumstances, due to health reason or fetal defects. I like that law.
The fact that abortion is still banned in Poland in the year 2012 is an embarrassment to your country. It's shows how religious Poland is. Women in America have easy access to abortion-on-demand in all states up to 24 weeks.
But a prostitute can go to jail. Interesting.
That's not true. Many states have decriminalized prostitution and instead focus on "rehabilitation. Here are some videos about legal brothels in America (something you will never have in conservative Poland). Watch both these videos. I bet you wished you lived in USA and had legal prostitution like us =]]
Online gambling is illegal? Does this mean that polish online gambling sites are illegal, or are all online gambling illegal? If the latter, doesn't that break a whole heap of EU-regulations and laws? And, how is this implemented?
I'm not so sure that the younger generation are so religious.
Most of my boyfriend's Polish cousins do not attend church, dislike the catholic church, and some are agnostic.
The reason Poland is so staunchly religious is compounded by two things:
1) The Catholic church was the only uncensored voice against communism for nearly 50 years.
2) The Pope during this time was Polish.
Without these factors Poland would not be as "religious" as it is now, and as these two factors are no longer at play I think we will see an increasing secularisation of Poland.
Many Polish youngsters,in my experience, seem to think that this overt show of religion is nothing more than pretence. I tend to agree, some of the most Catholic people I know are also the worst kind people when it comes to racism, homophobia, and tolerance. The actual teaching of Jesus seems to have bypassed a lot of Catholics, but I think the youth in Poland are waking up to this and are a lot more moderate, certainly when it comes to things like contraception and gay rights. Not a bad thing IMO.
Times are changing. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
Since when being religious is a bad thing? So now Polish people on this board should boast how proabortion, proprostitution, prowhatever they are just too please some intolerant and uninformed OP. I wouldn't call him liberal since most his post show that he is not, his just intolerant, probably uneducated troll.
Troll or no troll it's good that the standard of debate in these forums are actually being looked at in factual terms, and is a standard I think which is on the increase in Poland itself.
One could always say "since when is religion a GOOD thing?". Both examples of extreme secularism and extreme religiousness have man MANY bad points that one could quite easily reference. Your question is a little silly.
No one's said religion is a bad thing. An unquestioning, unchangeable, dogmatic mind is, however, a bad thing - in the case of both religion and politics . Especially when it goes against the actual teaching of the founder of the religion/party in the first place. If people wish to boast about how pro-whatever it is they are, then why not, as long as they have a good thought process and solid facts to back up their claims.
And just in case people were wondering, claims like - "Cos the priest said so" or "cos gays are perverted" or "cos a foetus is a child" or "cos the Pope is Polish" no longer cuts the mustard any more in debate especially with those Poles who are under 30. All statements like this do is show intolerance, a lack of scientific, biblical AND humanitarian understanding, and an unwillingness to move beyond a childish "cos I said so" followed by throwing toys out of prams style of debate.
Damn these Polish youth, with their critical thought processes!
As if that was ultimate goal for everybody. Talking about tolerance...
One good aspect of a liberal society is that they do not enforce their religious beliefs on those who do not necessarily hold the same belief by enshrining it in law (that's the important part). The most intolerant, damaged societies in the world are currently places where religion is law. Take a good look at the wahabbists in Saudi Ariabia, or a look at Somalia, and you can easily see how law based on religion quickly leads to intolerance. Look at figures on standard of living, freedom of thought, and happiness indexes of the world and it's clear that the most secularised societies win hands down.
You may want to withdraw that.
I tell you what you find me a quote of that vein from this thread and then I'll withdraw it.
What I can see in his posts is extreme secularism in its worst.
No, what you can see is extreme trolling, and extreme lying at its worst.
I can discuss bad points of being fanatical religious as long as they have a good thought process and solid facts to back up their claims but OP clearly lack in this department.
Clearly. The OP did a good job at not researching and out-rightly lying.
"Extreme trolling" in my case may be your subiective impresision and you have right to have one, but where I lied. Could you quote?
I tell you what you find me a quote of that vein from this thread and then I'll withdraw it.
Funny thing you especially stressed this thread. I think that every post counts, because in every post and thread we state our thougts and opinions that are relevant when you want to know more about a person you are discussing with.
I just hate religion
Pretty embarassing statement on part of your liberal friend. That doesn't fit to the image of him that you want to force through. So would you now withdraw it?
The most intolerant, damaged societies in the world are currently places where religion is law.
Is Poland a country like that?
The same applies to English/American swearing in Polish.
"Extreme trolling" in my case may be your subiective impresision and you have right to have one, but where I lied. Could you quote?
What ARE you talking about? Not you. The OP. He's a lying troll, as evidenced by his complete inability to come up with accurate facts. His posts aren't examples of "extreme secularism" as you put. His posts are examples of trolling and the bending of facts.
Pretty embarassing statement on part of your liberal friend.
Not really. He's not my friend. And he said he hates religion. Like I said before, find me an example of someone saying
religion is a bad thing
and I'll withdraw it.
I hate tomatoes but I don't think they're a bad thing. AFAIC everyone has the right to practice religion as they see fit, if it aids personal spiritual growth how can it be bad?
Organised religious institutions on the other hand.... now that's a different kettle of fish all together.
Is Poland a country like that?
Not at all, not even close. Having said that I don't think that forcing a woman to go through an unwanted pregnancy by law (it's akin to mental torture - and I can find you reams and reams of research into that), or calling an entire section of society "perverted and disgusting" and not giving them equal rights as consenting (and that's the important part) adults adds to quality of life.
There is religion. And then there is religion in law, and organised religious institutions.
It is extreme trolling really. Poland has always had a dichotomy between the rural and small-town 'religious conservative' Ciemnogrod and the urban, more enlightened, centuries old liberal tradition. It isn't possible to reduce the situation by saying it's backward. There has always been so much more here.
