No residency permit or PESEL number - worried that I'm here illegally

Hi,

im currently working in Warsaw for a school. everything is normal except that I don't have a residency permit or PESEL number or anything of that nature. I have asked about it as work and no-one seems to give me any definitive answer.

I only have around 4 months left at the school but I will be returning in September to continue my work here (at a different school)

I'm just wondering what I should do as I will be here for a few years but technically my first year (this one) I've not been registered in Poland. Should I go and get it sorted out and possibly **** off my employer.

Would it be a good idea to sort it out just before I go home for summer and then it is all sorted for my next job when I come back?

Should I just finish this year and then come back in September like it's my first year and sort it out at that time?

I'm a bit worried that I'm here illegally (working anyway) and that I'll get in trouble in the future.

Any help would be really useful.

Thanks

um...that sounds like standard normal practise, the no-one giving you a definitive answer, that is normal..... it's Poland....

If you are an EU national then I wouldn't worry, if not, well that is a different matter.

Do you actually need a residency permit? What country are you from? If it's outside the EU, you will certainly need one; if it's inside the EU you shouldn't, as Maybe says, worry.

As for a PESEL, Poles often regard it as important (it is important for them) however many people from other countries do not have them and it is not obligatory - I don't after 2 decades in Poland. You do still however (if you don't have a PESEL) need to pay tax - are you sure your employer has been making the right deductions and forwarding them to the tax office?


Sort it out then, but ''like it's my first year'' doesn't mean anything - they do not ask about previous visits to Poland.

Be careful though - if you're from outside the EU and have overstayed your visa (even if it's a 'visa on arrival') you may have issues.

OP, The odd thing is that some people say that as an EU citizen there's no need for this and no need for that. Perhaps that is the truth, I don't know.

However, when I enquired with various officials it seemed to be the case that an EU person needs to register (zameldowanie) if staying in Poland for longer than a month (or maybe it was 3, but definitely 1 or 3 months) and that a PESEL is (according to some sources) necessary when paying tax as an employee. What seems to be the case is not every official tells you the same thing. Nevertheless, when I applied (unsuccessfully unfortunately) for the 1 suitable job I came across in many years here one of the first things the employer did was say "You must have PESEL" and they sent the forms back to me asking for it. For renting a flat, I just gave my passport. Some sources tell me if I buy a car I'll need a PESEL to register it or get the insurance. I suspect that may not be correct, but it wouldn't surprise me to have some hassle if I turned up without one at the insurance company and car registration office.

See also (for non EU probably):

udsc.gov.pl/FREQUENTLY,ASKED,QUESTIONS,809.html
(For EU)

duw.pl/pl/wersje-jezkowe/english-version/right-of-residence-in/7252,Right-of-residence-in-Poland-of-citizens-of-EU-Member-States-and-their-family-me.html

Also:

forummigracyjne.org/en/faq.php?kat=2
emn.gov.pl/ese/news/8956,dok.html (new 2012 rules)
info-migrator.pl/en.htm

That's about addresses and residence. It is not illegal to not have one.


I've paid tax in PL for years, sometimes as an employee, sometimes as a board member and have never had a PESEL.


Your suspicions are correct; I've done both several times. You do tend to get hassle dealing with Polish bureaucracy regardless with different people (often sitting next to each other in the same office) giving different advice and swearing on their lives that it is true. Fortunately things are getting better slowly.

It would have been a huge help if the OP had told us his/her nationality - at a language school there are several possibilities. Nevertheless, if he/she is from the UK/Ireland they should rest assured that they have an absolute right to live and work in PL. The only potential issue I can see is if the employer doesn't give a statement of tax deducted before he/she leaves. If nothing comes, it might be better (though illegal) to draw a line under the matter when making future tax declarations rather than opening a can of worms.

If the OP is American or ANZAC, different rules apply and it is possible to overstay a visa with unfortunate results.

That depends on whether you're an EU citizen or not. If you are, just leave it: there's pretty much nothing which must be sorted out. If you aren't, you might want to plan around not coming back as you have almost certainly already over-stayed your visa.


They are wrong, you do not need a PESEL number (their internal procedures may require a PESEL number but in that case you just make one up).


I have a car (which was recently re-registered) and it has insurance: I do not have a PESEL number.


It depends on if he/she is an EU citizen or not and on what basis he/she has been employed. Personally, if I was an EU citizen who'd been employed on an umowa o dzielo basis and the school refused to give me copies of the paperwork showing that I'd been paying tax, I'd probably pass that information on to the tax office myself.

Yes - perhaps I was assuming the worst ;-)

One positive, that the OP may not know and most small employers don't know either, probably because they never have to think about it, is Poland's particularly generous tax residency rules. In most circumstances, someone can be there for 183 days per year rather than the measly average of 90 (per year over 5 years) the UK offer before tax residency is established.

Apparently it is illegal if here longer than 3 months.


I'm sure you're right, but they all ask for one :)

I am already here quite a long time, I have a PESEL. Frankly speaking my life here would have been much more difficult without having one.


I am little bit surprised by this. Living here on a passport only for example would be - I think - impossible.
Did you ever try to get for example a mobile phone or internet contract on the basis of not having any residence documents?
Or to import your car into Poland?
And how did you manage to get registered for voting?

Anyway, I always prefered to have my paperwork (Pesel, Nip, meldunek...) in order since day one I arrived here.
I admit it caused me many frustrations way back, but that's all behind me since some years.

Only in certain circumstances - a surprising number of people don't have them, including Polish citizens. The whole system's due (actually overdue) to be abolished and nobody would ever have trouble if they didn't get one. Most people who rent don't have them either because most landlords in PL can't get their heads round the idea that they aren't permanent.


I've heard some people say that, however I always use pre-paid SIMs and I've had 2 internet/cable TV contracts without. Just the Akt Notarialny or Umowa Najmu was sufficient. I've never need a foreign car and when registering for the vote, nobody asked me for a PESEL - I had my EU residents' card.

And thinking back, when I last needed internet/cable installing (I think it was UPC or Aster City, one of those two, whoever covers Wola), I didn't even have to show them anything except my passport and the colour of my money.

Jon, what do you understand under that one? Because, the more years I live in Poland, the more people I meet who have different ID docs....

Never heard of that EU residents' card...I have that salmon-pink flimsy piece of paper which tells you have a permanent right of residency - but itself is only valid for 10 years.

But which is not a karta pobytu, and from what I heard very few people have this.

In the past I had a karta pobytu, the plastic one.
And Harry way back mentioned something about having got something printed on a white A4 (I could be mistaken here) ?

And then my Canadian friend has something called "European Card" which looks like a karta pobytu but is still something else :)

Like that, but plastic and looking like a Dowód Osobista. I lost it a year or so ago (off the side of a ship!) and haven't bothered to replace it - if I need ID, I just use my spare passport.


Same here, before EU entry. My work used to sort it out. I remember it took ages to apply for and when it arrived, they must have backdated it because it was almost expired. I only had one, because it was easier to pop me on a train to Berlin. Then I just stopped bothering and nothingbad happened.

Merged: Applying Residency card after 3 years of full time study in Poland

Hello!

I would like to ask if i will be in big trouble if i want to apply for a residency card now after 3 years of full time study in Poland ?

I was always on visitor visa staying here, during these 3 years , everytime I leave the country within 3 months and back after some holidays.

So i have always been legal in Poland. ( not sure about the part studying on Visitor visa)

But if i apply for the residency card now , and they will know that during the 3 year of study here I don't have student visa or residency card.

Question is , will I be in big trouble then ?
Because i am trying to look for jobs here now .
I never thought of staying after graduation so i didn't pay attention to this .

hope someone would kindly provide any ideas!

Thank you so much!

P.s. i have 2 passports from visa free country . so each time i can stay up to 90 days with each passport

...but at the same time, you cannot stay for 180 days (1 passport for 90 days and then another passport for 90 days)

Thank you for your reply terri!

I leave the country every 90 days ,
So i never stayed in Poland more than 90 days each time .

I would like to know if i will be in big trouble if i apply for residency card right now as they will know i didnt have student visa and residency card the past 3 years?

Thank you so much !!!