Poland's ZUS - how much to register and later deregister?

InWroclaw 89 | 1910

5 Aug 2013 / #1

I have the prospect of some self-employed work for a month or two, although not sure yet if I'm going to get the green light

I will need to get a NIP and pay ZUS.

How much does Poland charge to register for ZUS and get a NIP number?
And how much do they charge to deregister ?
I think I have to file a monthly statement with ZUS, too ?

Moderator/Member Wroclaw posted a link on another thread to some figures but I was a bit lost to understand it even with a translation. Can anyone summarise it for me, please ?

delphiandomine 86 | 17823

6 Aug 2013 / #2

Can anyone summarise it for me, please ?

You're looking at around 500zl a month - 400zl-ish in mandatory ZUS contributions and 123zl for an accountant.

OP InWroclaw 89 | 1910

6 Aug 2013 / #3

Thanks for that, appreciated.

Am I right in thinking the state itself does not charge a registration and (inevitably) deregistration fee?
Would an accountant typically charge extra for registering and degistering me in addition to their monthly fee for doing my books? I'd guess they would.

delphiandomine 86 | 17823

6 Aug 2013 / #4

Am I right in thinking the state itself does not charge a registration and (inevitably) deregistration fee?

Nothing at all - you can even do it online if you get yourself an electronic signature. It's a remarkably painless process to register and unregister the company these days.

Would an accountant typically charge extra for registering and degistering me in addition to their monthly fee for doing my books? I'd guess they would.

They would, but you can do it yourself - it's only one form and doesn't contain anything tricky or difficult in it.

OP InWroclaw 89 | 1910

6 Aug 2013 / #5

Nothing at all - you can even do it online if you get yourself an electronic signature. It's a remarkably painless process to register and unregister the company these days.

Not too sure what an e-signature is or who issues them but will look into it and the form you mentioned, thanks again !

I can't believe this situation has been going on since August when I first asked the question! Where is the time going? Sigh.

Anyway, this is another question if anyone knows:

An accountant said that if I start a business and start paying ZUS at the introductory rate of 410PLN for 2 years, I lose that introductory rate of 410PLN if I cease the business in the first 2 years. In other words, that I get just one crack at running a business at the 'bargain' price 410PLN for ZUS. If that's correct, then it means a business owner may be inclined to keep going for a while longer so as not to lose the 'bargain' introductory rate of ZUS. But, it also means that a person can't easily start a business when they have some work lined up, then suspend it when they don't, thus saving money on ZUS and accountancy fees.

Correct or misinformation?

Anyone with knowledge on this, please post.

smurf 38 | 1940

17 Jan 2014 / #6

AFAIK you can cease company operations from time to time, like for example ESL teachers can close their company if they leave Poland for the summer months and then reopen it when they return.

You can do this a few times, but I've heard that once you start doing it regularly you come under the radar of tax auditors a lot faster, but if your tax books are in order then you've nothing to worry about, if they find you've been doing cash jobs then the sh!t hits the fan.

OP InWroclaw 89 | 1910

17 Jan 2014 / #7

Thanks Smurf.

At the moment, the forecast income is so little that it relies heavily on Poland's economy really picking up to make it viable. If that doesn't truly happen, the effects won't be felt in my wallet, except negatively. No surprise of course, except that the margin really would be that slim, so that it's heavily dependent on B2B and their retail customers.

Hence why I'm being so careful before committing to it, because so far I just see a loss and not a penny for myself for ages unless I have an incredible stroke of luck, which it's folly to hope for in my experience!

smurf 38 | 1940

17 Jan 2014 / #8

Best of luck man, but ask for a 2nd opinion in case I'm wrong :)

OP InWroclaw 89 | 1910

17 Jan 2014 / #9

Thanks :o)

I'm not pressing the start button yet anyway because I need to see some more numbers, but if 'n' when I do I'll speak to another accountant or two before choosing one. Opinions among them strangely vary! I dunno why.

I think it's my fault for not phrasing the question correctly, however it seems that to start a business the registration fee is 100zł.

See: info-migrator.pl/us-4-work_in_the_republic_of_poland__law_-28-economic_activity.htm

An application filled in Polish includes:

the name, headquarters and legal status of the foreign trader,

the range of activities undertaken by the trader,

name, surname and the residence address of the person who is authorised in the agency to represent the foreign trader,

the address of the agency in the territory of Poland

Source: um.wroc.pl/m3554/p6663.aspx and ms.gov.pl

jon357 73 | 23073

19 Jan 2014 / #10

That looks like the regulations for setting up a Polish branch of a company already registered abroad - a different kettle of fish.

OP InWroclaw 89 | 1910

19 Jan 2014 / #11

Ah I see, thanks for checking that. We're lucky you're 'ere!

An application filled in Polish includes:

· PESEL, if the trader has the number,

· the designation of the trader, i.e. full name and surname and - if any - the name of the company,

· the subject of the economic activity, in accordance with Polska Klasyfikacja Działalności (Polish Classification of Activity),

· NIP (numer identyfikacji podatkowej - tax identification number), if the trader has the number,

· the localisation and the residence address, the address of delivery as well as the address which is adequate for carrying out the activity and if the activity is implemented out of the localisation and residence address - also the address of the main localisation where the activity is carried out and the branch if any was established,

· the information of the marital property system or the lack of it,

· the information of the agreement of civil company if any was established,

· the data of a permanent legal agent entitled to carry out the trader's business - if any was established,

· the precise date of establishing the activity which is essential for other institutions (e.g. Tax Office) and legalising the activity.

The fee for submitting the application is 100 zl and if the application refers to change in the register the fee is 50 zl. The application for removing from the register is free of charge. The act of registering should take place within maximum of 7 days. Then the confirmation of registering is delivered within 14 days from submitting the application.

I'm going to assume the above refers to what Jon said. (However, a fee of 50zł is definitely payable for all traders per PKD code added later.)

Any business that is registered with KRS/the courts (all businesses? some businesses? VAT reg businesses? I don't know) need to pay 300PLN to close their business

source: migrant.info.pl/closing-down-business.html

Well, this page below seems to say it's everyone who has to pay 100PLN, even individuals going self-employed. I'm sure the accountant told me there's no fee, just as you have. But...

Please see
en.poland.gov.pl/Registration,procedures,6383.html

Registration procedures

The process of establishing business in Poland should start with the selection of the most appropriate legal form (see: Forms of enterprises), and with signing the Articles of Association or Deed of Formation. The fees, depending on the selected forms of activity, are varied.

Establishment of individual enterprise (enterprise run by a natural person) or registered partnerships are the cheapest.The registration of the business in such case costs PLN 100.The Economic Activity Record (Ewidencja Działalności Gospodarczej) is managed by the local government of the community where the business is to be located.

See also: doingbusiness.org/data/exploreeconomies/poland/starting-a-business

Here, Gregor mentions "lower" not zero registration fees for new sole trader businesses registering here in Poland
https://polishforums.com/law/poland-register-new-business-31224/#msg728137

Lots of great info from D too, including this which I think is likely to be very true about accountants
https://polishforums.com/law/poland-register-new-business-31224/2/

And this vital tip from D, which I can say has proven to be true when I was trying to get a contract with various firms and also dealing with various other "professionals"

I can only give you one piece of advice - trust no-one and verify absolutely everything you're told.

jon357 73 | 23073

20 Jan 2014 / #12

I certainly never paid that, however it may well have changed.

OP InWroclaw 89 | 1910

20 Jan 2014 / #13

Thank you for posting, Jon. My accountant also seems to not know about a fee. At the moment, the costs to start make me look a berk to even consider it.

But, for anyone else with a better idea for business than mine, do your homework and then you can register online here (probably need an electronic signature though)

- here's the English link and good luck!

prod.ceidg.gov.pl/CEIDG/CEIDG.Public.UI/DecisionAdditionalParameters.aspx?type=1

The HELP box does back up what you say, Jon, but other sites say 100PLN. I can only assume that the 100PLN is not for the CEIDG stuff but some other formality.

You: Is registration in CEIDG free of charge?
Linda: All activities related to the entry in the Central Register and Information on Economic Activity (CEIDG) operated by the Ministry of Economy of the Republic of Poland (such as gaining the entry/change of the entry/suspension/resumption/deletion of the entry) are FREE OF CHARGE.

They went as far as to make this announcement about it being free:

prod.ceidg.gov.pl/CEIDG.CMS.ENGINE/?D;15bc8aee-0cbc-47a4-8a5b-f8bf81781457

but yet it seems several official websites say 100PLN. If they're not official websites, I don't see how they monetise and get that 100PLN off punters.

jon357 73 | 23073

20 Jan 2014 / #14

Perhaps at town hall level. I doubt it would put even one person off.

You certainly need to pay a small amount at GUS.

OP InWroclaw 89 | 1910

20 Jan 2014 / #15

I doubt it would put even one person off.

Puts me off when I add it to the other expenses, I can tell ya. As does being hit with a ZUS bill of circa 400PLN a month from day one.

Likely to discourage more than 1 newcomer who's a small acorn too, I should wager. No small acorns, no might oaks.

You certainly need to pay a small amount at GUS.

Sure, and it all seems as clear as mud. So, it's a small fee after all? Or maybe not. Yet the website says FREE in capitals.

The Migrant pl website seems to be EU-connected, it says 100PLN. The CEIDG site, apparently Poland's govt site, says no fee.

CEIDG is separate from GUS then? You don't need to register with GUS if you start a business, so CEIDG is correct when it says FREE like that?

Didn't think so. One of the websites is wrong. 100PLN is 100PLN. Every little helps. Or doesn't.

jon357 73 | 23073

20 Jan 2014 / #16

So, it's a small fee after all? Or maybe no

You have to buy stamps. Not many.

You don't need to register with GUS if you start a business

You do need to register with GUS and get a document to take to the Urzad Skarbowy - there's a few threads here about it.

Likely to discourage more than 1 newcomer who's a small acorn to

Twenty quid?

OP InWroclaw 89 | 1910

20 Jan 2014 / #17

Twenty quid's twenty quid, to some of us! Try getting an extra score out of someone spending a couple of hundred on furniture or owt, you'll have a devil's own job.

It's yet another 100PLN and not a penny earned yet.

Anyway, 'nough moaning from me about 100PLNs. I know others will regard it as pocket change.