Medical Malpractice in Poland - seeking accountability?

And you missed very important point. Its a very small minority.

How small? Well, ONE student nurse.

That's true, doctors are very well off in Poland and hearing stories about people giving a doctor a bottle of whiskey just makes me laugh...unless the doctor wanted to calm his nerves prior to the operation, I don't think the whiskey would have much impact on what he earns....might have been the case in the 60's but not now.

Yeah, scratched my head about that one myself.. or a big bag of chocolates? For a damn operation? I'd sooner head down to Mexico and have them slice me up. There I'd only have to ante up a couple of chickens.

According to my wife doctors are earning 20k per month, even nurses find it a bit perplexing to be offered sweets and they only earn 2k.

I think the real problem is the attitude the public has, they assume that this is required. Politicians are are a different matter, apparently, becuase thats the whole point of being a politician - you don't get elected to help other people.

I know a person (last year) who was told the cue for potentially life saving cancer treatment was months away, 2000 PLN was handed over to the Head of Department Doctor and she was in the very next week. OHH yeah believe that.

Doctors take bribes all the time in Poland, never ever known a Doctor or nurse to turn one away. Ive even been to Doctors consultations where they request you leave bags outside, theyre worried you have a camera and will film them taking a bribe.

the giving of small gifts often comes after the operation, not before. they may be thought of as a thank you for a job well done.

it also seems to be something from the past.

the handing over of money (500-600zl) as a bribe is something different. However, i doubt that it goes on much these days.

edit: just read WB's comment and have no reason to doubt it. maybe i'm wrong.

When was the last time you were living in Poland . It seems long time ago . I have never heard about such things happening these days .

They don`t really need your bribes .

True.

Doesn't mean they don't though.

April 2011, i lived there for just under 6 years.


Happens all the time.


The ones that have private practices outside NFZ perhaps do not, doesnt mean that they dont take them though, ive had many a meeting where the guy sat opposite me is more than obviously looking for a bribe, none more so than when the person sat opposite is a Doctor.

The story i told above is 100% true and like i said it happened last year. I feel sorry for all the people with no money that need life saving treatment and then die because they cant afford the bribes. The waiting list for cancer treatment in Poland is horrendous and in many cases results in death.

I do think however its more of a small town thing.

Polonthemeds, the moment you start listening to real stories and give up blanket denial is the moment you will begin to move forward. People who you perceive to be anti-Poland are merely giving the other side of the coin. Like Wrocław, I have no reason to doubt WB and he also has plenty of good things to say about Poland, I might add. Just observation for the most part.

Medical malpractice happens. To errr (sic) is human ;)

The last time I was in a state hospital, there was no toilet paper, no soap and nothing to dry one's hands with. But you claim those places have the money to pay good salaries? Have you been to a place called the real world?

lol... a bit of a general comment hey.. If doctors take bribes you can only assume everyone else takes bribes ie local government (getting planning permits) police etc....I don't think so.

think again. there are plenty of reliable accounts.

[quote=Wroclaw]think again. there are plenty of reliable accounts.

may have been common years ago, sure, but things are changing fast in Poland, To be frank its a insult to ones intelligence to hear people saying they need to bribe a doctor etc, doctors are now pretty well off in Poland. I don't deny Poles still give a small gift ie flowers or chocolates, but this is only a gesture of appreciation... The issue of hospitals, sure they do not match those of the west and lack certain things, but Polish doctors are very skilled and on par with the west.

It's even more insulting to see utter incompetence and negligence from nurses and doctors during and immediately after the most crucial point in one's life. People commenting here are speaking from experience so you can kind go catch a flying f*cking tire iron to your insulted intelligence for all I care at this point. When the old guard of nurses and doctors who only feeling like caring when it suits their schedule are a thing of the past then you can be rightfully indignant on the topic. Until then, swallow and either digest or choke on your denial and learn from people's experiences.


Just like the driving here, it is not a question of skill. It is a question of carelessness, poor decision making and a lack of imagination in both the doctors AND medical support!

I remember my first hospital visit in poland.
I had a rare form of salmonella and had to go to the hospital of infectious diseases in wroclaw. The doctor was trying to insist that I stayed for a week but when I saw the facilities I was out so fast. In a hospital of infectious diseases there was no soap or toilet paper.

I cannot imagine how I could have stayed there suffering from bouts of bloody diahorrea every 20 minutes.
Every time I visit the hospital it seems dirty dark and depressing. And I very often see doctors who take money for nfz procedures.
There is still a long way before poland has medical care that I would feel comfortable with - luckily I have private insurance through my employer now and so I don't have to worry as much.

Don't come the raw prawn with me, I'm not a supporter of the Polish Health system but all over the world doctors make mistakes, In Poland people don't see doctors for regular check ups and when they are sick they are better off attending the local mortuary than a hospital... Those people who are critical of the hospital system should enquire when there loved one last visited a doctors clinic for a check up!

What about six weeks ago? That's when my sister-in-law paid a bribe to get to the front of the queue for her hip operation.

In this sense, I get the impression that despite all the big shopping centres and expensive cars, there are often more parallels here with Greece than Germany here. Unfortunately.

Not having toilet paper or soap or paper towels is not a mistake: it is a symptom of a health care service that simply does not work.

What you do with raw prawns is your business, let's keep it that way.


It's not so much the mistakes, it's the repeated mistakes and the carelessness/reckless approach to health care.
I witnessed equipment malfunction right before my eyes and one nurse was unable to press a button to turn off the machine-TWICE. Should I have inquired first if the equipment had passed inspection?

Later, technicians were called in to fix it. No one tested it and sure enough when they needed it a few hours later it broke down again. Maybe that patient should have asked about the equipment?

I've seen that it's a practical exercise in russian roulette with hygiene at the hospital I went to. Access is another problem. I saw nurses let whole groups walk in to restricted areas without so much as whispering. No one washed, no wore any protective equipment, this was in a restricted area.

When meeting with specialists now, they can't explain how other doctors and nurses didn't notice a HOST of symptoms.
No one seems to be able to explain how original readings were interpreted so incorrectly. Maybe you'd like to blame that on the patient but we don't have the experience in interpreting medical images, how is that our fault?


The check ups were regular like clock-work.

Your inability to accept that others have legitimate criticism in this matter is your short coming.

My observation of the Polish State system is that it's very simply a lottery.

But again - the Polish mentality does hurt them. In Poznan, there's a hospital right next to Stary Rynek. Prime land, the building is architecturally rubbish and insignificant - and yet when you say "why don't they sell it and use the money to build a brand new hospital in the suburbs?" - most people will instantly claim that there needs to be a hospital in the centre!

You do realize if you had paid an incentive none of that would have happened. I assume the Doctors and nurses were aware you were foreign?

[quote=Wroclaw Boy][/quote]
The focus was on other people. I was there because I had to be.

The way doctors make money is often a bit more sophisticated than taking banknotes in a brown envelope. Here's my experience of a couple of years ago. I needed a minor operation. The doc told me to come to his private clinic (a room with a wash basin in a town block). I paid 70PLN, as did 25 other people, for a two-minute 'consultation', the purpose of which was simply to put me higher on the waiting list for the op. He does this lucrative little gig once a week. The operation would have meant me spending three days in hospital. This was a very minor operation, but the hospital wants you in for longer so they can claim more from NFZ (a doctor friend's daughter was in for five days for a minor op). When I said I couldn't waste three days in hospital the doc had a solution. Come to his private practice and have it done for 900PLN. This is what I did. The op took four minutes.

Then why do you even bother to live in Poland?If Poland is not by your standards why dont you go back??????
I wonder most people come to Poland and want to live there and criticise the host land....i guess to show that they are from better place..why dont they leave and let Poland grow in its own natural way....JEALOUSY i guess:)

^
Some of us are here because our spouse's aren't ready to leave yet.
I'll bet your a** wasn't preaching about "Poland growing in its own natural way" when E.U. subsidies were making a difference, were you?

What the fcuk does that even mean, what the hell does "Poland growing in its own natural way" translate to in real action and consequence?

We're not criticizing a country or land, we're criticizing a dysfunctional system within a land. There IS a difference. Learn it.

Thats probally sums it all up, the people who are critical of the health system are mainly non poles, ask them what the health system is like in GB or Ireland.. A person from the US knows that being sick without health insurance is very very expensive indeed. For those critical of the Polish health system a simple solution, stop freeloading on the public system and get private cover full stop. Foreigner4 sorry to say but Poland is not for you with your attitude.

Of wanting staff competent enough to use the equipment they are paid and trained to use?

Anyone working here and paying taxes here is not freeloading, and my POLISH Mrs is highly critical of the Polish system, then again, she had a consultant who couldn't read a friggin scan correctly. Or does that serve her right for not paying bribes in advance...just in case? Pigsarse.

And given that the hospital has a great big F'KING sign in it saying how much equipment in it was paid for by the EU (that is, tax payers from all over Europe) you might want to reassess exactly how judge who pays for it.

why pay a bribe if people don't know what there doing...suggest you take out private insurance, by all accounts its types like you who can afford it...in most systems there's always a few flaws but generally speaking its a good system...let those who are critical have a hard look how bad the health system is where they come from... silence is deafening!


I take your point but no need for the bad language, it ceases to amaze me the nerve of those people who come to Poland and spend all day complaining about the system, if you don't like it get out The reason why he is staying because he knows hand on heart that life in Poland is good and beats the place he has come from.

kneegrow, you are the epitomy of someone talking out of their a**. Do you really think one can leave other members of their family to deal with tragedy simply because it doesn't suit one's fancy? When you mature, and it'll take a lot of time, you'll come to understand that one must at times make personal sacrifices for the sake of others. No one wishes that were not the case more than I but that is how it is.

Now to keep this academic. Explain what you meant by this:


I'll excuse any farting sounds that accompany your explanation as it is clearly due to your head being up your a**


And my wife? Her family? What about my Polish friends? Who, in your view, is qualified to criticize incompetence here? To what degree must one be affected to state their view? How long must one reside here? These are rhetorical questions i.e. your opinion on the matter is of no consequence to me.

Magpie hit the nail on the head. Your cognitive dissonance on this matter is boundless.