Investors/Entrepreneurs.. Steer Clear of Poland.

you dont give tips in fastfoods

OK, enough being hostile.


It's a constant problem here. I'm trying to find someone for some freelance work with no expectations other than trying their best and providing feedback (if it doesn't work, it doesn't work - no problem) - yet the wage offered (12.50/hour plus commission) is just too low to attract anyone. No experience is required, yet it seems that finding someone bubbly and bright for this money is impossible. I've actually just had to readvertise it for a higher salary - and I have my doubts if anyone will bite.

I think in all honesty, part of the problem is that students are conditioned by society to believe that working part time/during summer isn't the done thing. It's undoubtably one of the reasons why graduates tend to be so poor in Poland - academically, they excel, but they frankly suck when it comes to practical ability.

due to all the personal attacks on me, when I was merely stating my opinions based on my experience I am requesting this topic be deleted.

it's too bad that all you idiots ruined it.

I knew it was gonna happen, but was hoping for something better like developing a constructive chat about how small businesses could maybe make some change in Pl and help it grow instead of being the butt of jokes and the baby of the EU.

As usual.... all the PF keyboard tough guys with no life came out attacking me and ruined it.

I wouldn't go that far with the description of young graduates in Poland, but if they accepted the job for the money offered they should do the job to the best of their abilities. Granted, it is not enough to live on but it provides extra money for the fancy clothes everybody wants as well as money to go out. The job is easy and you hopefully get to eat the food you prepare...

Lots of American students have restaurant jobs. The money made in a good, fine restaurant can even put you through a college. It worked for me!

Nowhere on earth are people working harder just because they earn more per hour. That's a fairytale.

absolutely. greater incentive not to lose their job.

After a while he will start complaining that he is not compensated sufficiently for all the work he's doing for you. Guaranteed...

PS: sorry for the edit of my previous post.

Now you can fire them. You're paying on the high side of the market rate, you can be picky.

Teacher,
What is amazing to me that you are still living in Poland. If I did not like living in a country and I would just leave. But you are still live there and you continue to post negative posts about Poland and Poles. Here are some of your past negative posts:

Fascination of Poles with German Laundry Detergent
55 minutes to write a ticket ("mandat karny")?
Homeless Poles living on barbecued rats and alcoholic handwash?
Yard waste burning at night - such typical behaviour
watching the procession
Poland's Idiotic Road Marking
Typical Examples of Polish Parking Entitlement (post yours)
Polish Cop Took My Car Registration :S
Poczta Polska Is Killing ME!
Reliable Weather Service In PL?
Polish Visitor to Vancouver Canada killed by RCMP TASER on the Airport
An English Version of Gadu-Gadu?

what kind of work is it? could you give me some details?


what personal attacks??


in UK. That's not fairy-tale

You don't say where you are from originally...Me, I Polish-American, live in USA, so I can't really speak on specifics of Polish bureaucracy, but you bring up what I think are universal problems in the West...BTW, you post is one of the best I've ever seen here.

Now, with utility companies, city bureaucrats and the like, same problems exist here in USA, sometimes better sometimes worse depending on where you live...I live in Philadelphia, and city bureaucrats bad here...You start business, you must do this, do that, get zoning permits, have to deal with bureau of licenses & inspections...However, not nearly as bad as what you speak of...Maybe this is a result of Communism, supposedly 'worker's paradise' but actually 'worker's hell' because any honest dedicated work is viewed with suspicion and envy...Communism a system of parasites, never do honest day's work in life, and the goal is to never do any in future...So, even after fall of Communism, most likely same mindset exists...But, if what you say is true, then Poland will go to 'dustbin' of history, because only a productive country, with a business friendly environment can prosper...And you, you come to Poland and INVEST, yet parasites view you with jealousy...See, as I get older, I find world is like a kindergarten, some never grow up...These are the types you seem to deal with.

On workers, here you must use wisdom and some strategy...You hire young workers so you don't have to pay tax...OK...But remember that young people need guidance, and some need constant supervision...Use the whip hand when needed, but don't pick on them constantly for little things, even if it cost you a few złoty...Work, of almost any type, must be fun sometimes, and it sounds like both you and employees don't have any fun...Perhaps hiring someone older, experienced in food service would help balance things out.

But it is good you stick it out...Sometimes it is darkest before the dawn.

Now for work ethic, let me tell you about me first GOOD job...I was 16-17, and a Ukrainian
friend of mine got me a job at Jewish deli where he also work...The owners were the Kaplan brothers, Meyer & Eddie...Meyer the 'good cop', he handle deli, dish out corned beef, lox, bagles, and he perfect for job, weighing about 300 pounds, big, jovial...Eddie was money guy, don't smile much, but he keep books in order, 'bad cop'...Eddie the one you give you hell when you f*** up.

My job was dishwasher, porter, busboy and anything else need be done...Every night I wash and unload 10-20 loads of dishes in dish machine, stack all plates in proper place & silverware...THEN, I scrub all the pots and baking pans, for briskets, turkey, corned beef etc...BIG NASTY job, scrub my hands raw, but I do it all, pans look good when I'm done...THEN, if it is busy and waitresses busy, I bus tables...I also take special plates and pans to cooks whenever they need it, and get supplies from basement...THEN, every night, I take out between 10-12 full buckets of garbage, empty into dumpster...This anywhere from 500 to 1200 pounds of garbage a night...HALF A TON, and I do it all by hand, by myself...THEN, last thing, I sweep and mop whole deli area, restaurant, and kitchen...Then I'm done...My pay?...This 1970, and I work maybe 32 hours per week...I take home maybe $125 a week...MAN, I loved it because $125 good money then, and I still in high school...Also, a cook there sell me Vietnamese weed, plus other 'things' and I make money from that..HA!!!...But, see, the cook was a WORKER, never miss a shift, and he keep whole kitchen in line...And we keep our dealings very discreet, never interfere with work.

But point I make is I WAS THRILLED TO HAVE CHANCE TO WORK as I never have to ask parents for money for anything...My dad was lenient, he say 'You work for it, you keep it: House paid off, we don't charge you rent or board...Work'.

See?...But kids today just don't understand work and discipline in many cases...I can understand this if you work for big chain, but if they work up close & personal for someone like you, they must show discipline and WORK...A little fun, now & then, yes, but when time to work, THEN WORK...

Good luck with bureaucrats, baby.

In the current job market, I can be both picky and not paying high wages at the same time.

dunno, that's always caused problems for me. I'd rather be on the higher end of the scale and attract quality talent. Easier to manage when they don't feel like they're shafted, and the quality is much higher...which means less stress for me in the end. I see tough job market as an opportunity to pick up better talent. But, to each his own.

I think that's the difference between good restaurants (or heck, *any* restaurant) and fast food joints. A well run restaurant encourages you to work hard because everyone shares in the profits - but a fast food joint? No-one cares. In fact, in Poland, the only people that care are the non-natives when it comes to fast food. Bit like most of Europe, really!


It's why bad language schools always pay peanuts, because they don't realise that high wages allows them to be picky. Empik are a great example of this - wonderful salary, they even pay Polish teachers 1zl/min - but they only want the best and they aren't afraid to fire bad teachers.


I don't get it either. There are much easier places to live in Europe, which still offer the chance of residency for non-EU citizens. Instead, knowing how bad Poland is, he sets up a fast food joint and wonders why he has problems. It's strange, because no other expat I've met has had so many problems here!


It's just a run of the mill sales rep job in Poznan, nothing more to say really - it's partially market research too under the guise of selling something to people.


Can't say it better than that.

You make a great post.

Most hiring managers will pay a fair market salary range because they want the employee to be happy as well - even in the picky times. A happy employee who enjoys their work will do a much better job than the employee who works just for money alone.

Sure, they can hire someone for less but depending on the type of business the quality still counts. We all know that you get what you paid for.

I think everyone that lived in Poland knows that everything OP wrote is true. We have all exprienced frustration with bureaucracy, services, employees - all true!

OP took his time to write about his own experience, exactly what these forums are made for, so others thinking about doing the same thing can be more realistic about what lays ahead.

Why is everybody attacking him?
Everytime I actually read something usefull here, a bunch of bored shut-ins chime in and spoil it. Instead of attacking him, tell about your own experience! If you have any.

I was wondering, how long did you prepare to make this business venture into Poland? What kind of research did you do ahead of time?

Have you started up similar businesses in the US?

If so, you probably know that 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the US within 5 years, so starting a new business in general is always challenging. Especially a labor intensive business like a restaurant.

graduates suck in poland because they are 24 years old, applying for their first job. resumes with nothing more than the classes they sat through in college. totally bogus.

What personal attacks? This might be a clue to your problems.
If you can't distinguish between helpfully intended criticism and/or suggestions and personal attacks (hell, it seems you can't distinguish between supportive comments and personal attacks) you might lack something in the 'people skills' department.

Employees are an investment, the biggest you have. My business is as far away from fast food as possible (consultancy), but I understand you have to accept that employee's are human and wil make mistakes, that they need time to learn and exist as humans.

But if you own a fasty food joint and treat your employees as something akin to poatoes with a hire 'em and fire 'em attitude, don't be surprised that the treat you the same. Pay someone and treat them as you would want to be in the circumstances.

I agree with the OP, Poland is a buracratic nightmare - its even listed as such in international research. If you think the problems with getting gas and electricity supply are normal, you need your head seeing to. To get a service in the UK, you basically order it online or over the phone and a contract is signed and the service, eventually, supllied. There is nothing else a customer should have to do.

Can you imagine the Japanese, French, German, Canadian or even English working for these peanuts and Victorian conditions? There'd be a revolution! I was told the Polish are used to being given 'shyte' since 1939, so they don't complain.

and you are not polish?

I just think this is a good example of why things aren't going your way in business, so I reposted it here.

It's a very good point that if a foreigner comes into Poland, acting like the big shot and not respecting locals (such as employing them on barely above minimum wage and quoting mantras like "time to lean, time to clean") at all - then of course he's going to have problems.

It would seem that many of his problems are of his own making. Sure, Poland isn't a fantastic business environment, but many problems can be avoided by speaking softly and carrying a large stick.

There was at time when the foreigner could come to Poland and act like the big shot, but after 2004 and EU entry all became equal in the mind of the Polish worker. I have mentioned this before on this forum and I will bring it up again, Polish workers want to learn, knowledge has a great power for them, for us as westerners knowledge is disposable we will freely discuss what we know. If you want to motivate Polish workers empower them. Money is second on the list.

none of those are such in an issue here in the usa.


that's rather curious as this is not the first time i have read similar rantings as nauczyciel's// this seems to be the norm in PL..


actually, that doesn't seem normal to me at all..


he sells taters.. how serious can that be..


you can't be that ignorant, can you?


yet much easier then in PL


lol.. ouch


so, what do you expect? half arse work? i'd fire them too.. if you don't want to work hard, better win the lotto then..


that is what having a job requires..


sounds like cleaning or whatever is part of the job..


Poles don't tip


lol.. good luck with that in PL.. 2 funny


nah, the other is right... but of course it does depend on the job type


those are not any kind of issues in most of the USA.. maybe just the large cities and maybe the east coast.. otherwise, it's not that hard.. sure there is some paperwork but it's nothing like the pain described by OP


with your attitude, do you really think they'd tell you?


no, not true right now... everyone is trying to get by on the cheap..


huh? have you not read this thread? it's full of attack on OP, yes.

recently we've had 2 threads, one by "pubben", one by "nauczyciel", both absolutely SHREDDING poland for reasons A to Z.

pubben's post had just as many criticisms, some of which were the same as nauczyciel's, but pubben got much warmer responses than nauczyciel.

i guess you can flame Poland for all it's inadaquecies and get away with it as long as you do it in a "diplomatic" way. for the most part, nearly everyone posted on pubben's thread that they agree with what he wrote, but many of those people are the same people that fight tooth and nail to defend Poland. they agreed with pubben, but today, tomorrow, the day after, these things will no longer be true to "Team Poland" and they'll respond to criticisms about Poland accordingly.

there is A LOT to be said about the results of these two threads but none of it surprised me. most of this forum is in complete denial about Poland and these two threads demonstrate this split personality phenomenon going on every day on PF. as i've said before, i don't have some hidden agenda, i just want this forum to quite simply get real. time to cut the crap because it gets so incredibly annoying when the same damn issues are on the table and one day people are willing to admit it, the other days, denial sets in......round and round we go.

the moderator should start a "sticky" thread that will sit right at the top of the threads list titled, "universal truths about Poland you are no longer allowed to argue about"

There are millions of such threads and I agree some tact can go a long way.

But having a sticky shedding Poland?
I thought the whole forum (or most of it), due to the users and abusers, was geared towards that anyway.

The women are all slags, the men eat swans and drink hand-wash, the country is corrupt beyond repair, they steal jobs in England, the women are gold diggers, business is impossible here, the roads are the worst in the world, nobody works and still expect to get paid.

With all these extremely one sided threads and posts comes an equal and opposite reaction.

Look at any thread (which doesn't blame Muslims) that comments on the negative aspects of England and see how valiantly people jump to it's defence when under blatant attack. It's the same thing, the Polish people I know on this forum have given up trying to 'defend' it under such a constant bombardment of attacks.

I have not commented on the OP's original post because I see no reason to.
He is not asking for advice or any questions, it seems to me he just wants to tell it how he sees it.
So there is nothing much to add to that as I believe he is just venting his frustrations.

I understand that many people come on here to vent and in doing so provoke a negative response.
I do it myself sometimes but no matter which country I live in, there are always good things and bad.

And that's a good point to most of the Polish Forum threads. People who are deeply frustrated with something in their life look to find someone else or something else to blame. It may be Poland or whatever. Their views tell much more about themselves than about the things they hate. The policy of the Administrator of this forum has inevitably led to this "natural selection" (in the Darwin's sense of the word) of the group who regularly come to vent here as they were told to go away somewhere else.