Before post, I was reading a lot of previous thread with similar situation. I will briefly comment what happen in my situation and I would like to receive positive or helpful feedback.
Some consideration: I am not polish. I have residence because my wife is polish (I am living here for almost 4 year). I had (it was stolen in this night) the driver licence of my country, I don't have a polish driver licence.
I get caught driving under alcohol (0.78), I never do it so it was the first time (not sure if in Poland there is a different in the law when it is for the first time).
I used the car because I receive an aggression in a club where I had been, the security guy put me outside and I tried to explain him that my jacket and my mobile was inside, I never was aggressive but the security guy doesn't listen me, you know how they usually are, till finally he understand so he enter with me to search my jacket, I got it but when I was outside again I realise that this was not my jacket.. and also inside this jacket were documents. So I back to talk with him, on this moment he get like tired of me, so push me and put pepper gas from 20/30 cm of my face.
I back as I can to my home, stopping a taxi, because I can't see nothing and I felt totally powerless face to the situation, since my jacket and mobile (a expensive one) was inside the place.
I arrive to home, with my eyes a bit better, so I called to a lawyer which I did some paper in the past. He recommend me to go to the hospital to get a certificate of my state, that is when under the influence not only of alcohol but also my emotional state, without think, I took the car and went to the hospital.. after wait for one and half hour by clock, I was not attended so I decide to leave.
I leave the car far away of the hospital, but this was quite strange, somehow I see a police car on the corner, I enter to my car I did 20 meters and the car was behind me doing that I stop. I did it and I follow all the procedure, after 1 more car of police arrive, 1 civil car, 1 civil van, and after 4 hours of papers and me sitting behind one car, and carry to one komisariat to blow again for test. they carry me to home and my car was translated to a parking.
They didn't leave me to do any phone call, and only few of them speak english so I answer all their question and signed the papers. I was without my phone, so if I could make a call somebody could go and pick up my car, per example, and not carry it (I had to pay 550zl for the carry of my car and the stay of one night). In general, I am totally sure that also I didn't receive the right that belong to me.
Soon I have to present on the police station for an testimony. Now.. I know that I broke the law, but my question are..
- Could the situation that carry to me to drive the car to the hospital, decrease the penalities or make some kind of appeal? - My car license was stolen in this night too, I realise it when they ask me for it, since I had it in my jacket, how can it affect more in the problem? or not?
- The fine could be up to 500zl? and the prision to be it the first time for sure is not inside the options, right? - As my driver licence was for another country, how they will ban me?, I can return and get a new one.. - As a foreign there are maybe some workaround that I can do?
I talk to the lawyer again, and he for represent me is asking me a lot of money (2000 zl), plus I have to paid the fine, plus my mobile and jacket stolen, plus what I paid to take out the car of the parking, it is really a big sum. It really will be importat to be represent on that case? I would like but if there is something that I can do execpt just accept eveything, I still doesn't feel well about what happen and as the aggression I suffered unleashed all the facts
Additionally, my wife have to go to the police station to give testimony about the jacket found in my home with documents, when the police come to my home to ask for my identification (I didn't have it with me)..
As it is all new for me, I will appreciate any advice, recommendation or path to follow?
You will be fined and maybe some jail time, but stop for a moment, and think what if you had killed or maimed someone due to your stupidity, you don't need to go to hospital because of pepper spray in your eyes, you went to hospital under the advice from your lawyer to get a piece of paper in the hope of a payout, man up learn a lesson from this ,do your time pay your fine, DONT DO IT AGAIN.
@dolnoslask Yes of course I am aware of the consequences, and I agree with you but at the moment I was totally blind because the situation, I should took a taxi.
I would like to know why do you said that
maybe some jail time
, on which it depends?
Also if you have answer for some of my question, I will appreciate it, Thank you.
The fact that you cannot produce a valid driving licence will aggravate your case, no licence and DUI will probably mean jail time in Poland.
Is there any way you can get a replacement licence from your home country? A Polish court will not accept your evidence alone you need to show a valid license.
Because of the high incidence of death caused by DUI in Poland the courts are giving out tough sentences, one guy recently got ten years because it was his second offence.
Having documentation in Poland is very important there is a fine for not carrying it, I always make sure I have mine, I am a Polish citizen, but I must carry it at all times.
@dolnoslask Thanks for answer again, I already spoken to my embassy, but there is not a way that I can get a copy from here, I need to do it in person, also I already declared when they stop me that I had it with my jacket and I comment what happen, but I think that nothing of these was reported anyway, they just do paper for the DUI detention only.
Your wife should be able to act as a witness, and speak in court for you , you may just get a fine but it is hard to tell each court can view things differently, especially between the village and the city.
Just explain the situation as you have here and hope for the best, sometimes a fancy lawyer can work against you in court.
Geez, I hope you have a decent job. And especially this is your first arrest in Poland. Who is the other ID you accidentally found in jacket? As in does the person look like you? Better if not because you could be accused of trying to steal ID.
Have you thought about admitting/saying you have a drinking problem and will go into rehab/AA classes etc? Poland is big on admitting responsibility - so you can mention that your attorney advised you to drive to the hospital but it is not an excuse and could be used against you. For example: you were either too drunk to think clearly ("I drink a-lot and still function when I'm blacked out") or you made a bad decision (doubtful this was your first and only time drinking and driving).
This is the mindset. Your story isn't a simple arrest. You had some run in with security, which is likely to be viewed against you negatively. This is why I would pick my battle: you lost your ID and are doubtful to receive it back. If you tell your whole story, it might make you sound like a street stumbling drunk, attending bars alone.
I would fly back get my license get a good law firm to represent me in court. Every country embassy has recommendations for lawyers.BTW to OP what country are you from?
@dolnoslask I will meet finally this lawyer today, not very cheaper but I hope at least that be good, he help me previously with some procedures. The situation is n Krakow. Thanks for the advice and reply.
@nothanks I have a decent work, and it is my first arrest, actually it was not an arrest I think so.. because I only was carry to the police station to blow the detector, I was always in the public space, they keep in on the car and carry to home after all the formalities. It counts as an arrest?
As I mention in my first post, after security put me out I can speak with them and they let me enter back to get my jacket, I got it, but when I am outside on the light I reilase that it is not mine, so I want to back to give back this one and search my jacket with my mobile and in that moment they push me and apply pepper gas.. so as I can, I can stop, almost, without see nothing a car and can back to my home. I leave the jacket on my home and went to the hospital by car (yes, my stupidity but on the moment I was out of mine and feeling very powerless).
When police stop me, I didn't have with my any ID, only the document that the car is mine, so one patrol go to my home to search my ID, where my wife and son (almost 1 year) were. My wife tell to the police that there is that jacket with documents that she didn't know. I didn't know that was on the pocket, I just on the moment didn't reilase to check it or whatever, you can image, I just wanted to solve the problem and get my jacket and specially phone back, also I didn't realize that I had my driving licence on my jacket.
So, know about this situation is quite strange, because when the patrol back with my data from my home, they ask me about the this jacket with documents, I told him the same that I tell you know, and all the club situation. But, for me the strange is that they call to my wife to give testimony about it, and not to me, because she was which give the jacket with documents to the police, I can image that they contact the person and they give it back to the owner, or at least, I was what I would do if my wife didn't talk about it with the police when they were to search my ID. I didn't if what she did will help me or not. She have to go tomorrow to give testimony.
Like you can see, I am not a street stumbling drunk, I have a good work and a family here, that is because also I was outside of myself with this situation it was the first time that happen to me.
But I understand your point, I will see that my lawyer recommend to testify and what not, but in one way I have to declare why I didn't have my driver licence, and it is together with the club situation.
@Pilsner It is quite complicate, I am from South America the ticket is expensive, very long distance and also I have my wife, son and work here. I have good communication with my embassy, they didn't have lawyer, is possible that they have a list of lawyers, but I have this one already, The only think is that I don't know if the money that he is asking me to paid for represent me is inside the normal parameters or not. The embassy itself I think that can't do to much on that case.. but not sure.
BTW, I already have address in Poland for my country, so get a driver licence from my country will took more than one month for sure, I have to go, change address in my document, get the licence copy which take some time, it is quite complicate plus the distance and responsibilities here, is not just a 3 or 4 hours flight.
Thanks for the advice and reply. Today at evening I will get a meeting with my lawyer, tomorrow my wife have to go to give testimony and when she will go they will give to her a new date for me, because they at the moment doesn't have a translator.
You are also obliged by law to convert your local driving licence to a Polish driving licence which you have not done, this could give you drunk driving, driving without a licence and driving without insurance... Which would automatically be a custodial prison sentence, also it would impact your residency status in Poland as you will be a criminal.
Which would automatically be a custodial prison sentence, also it would impact your residency status in Poland as you will be a criminal.
A Very good point that I had missed, driving without a valid licence on top of DUI (Not exchanged for a polish one in required time) will mean time in jail
Plus a criminal record, future citizen application will be difficult for sure.
Your experience is quite complicated. There are major uncertainties with your arrest/charges. And this is usually a bad sign. They are likely to throw a bunch of charges at you and you will be forced to plea bargain (accept a few charges in order to drop others). I think this is what post above poster ^ is unfortunately illustrating. For your sake I really hope you have submitted the proper paperwork before, as a 4-year resident.
It is most likely you will be attending court a couple times. So you will see your charges and then be given the opportunity to gather evidence/hire attorney. Right now you need to be gathering all the paperwork/documents you can. It is unlikely you blew over the limit in Poland and will not at-least spend a few days in jail. Even in other nations you are forced to sit in holding cell until you "sober up" 15 hours or so. But you were carried home?
Also "I get caught driving under alcohol (0.78)" - is incorrect. You would be dead. You blew a BAC of 0.078. Which is on the border of DUI in most states in the USA for example. So you weren't drunk but you certainly should not have been operating a vehicle (they will think).
A Very good point that I had missed, driving without a valid licence on top of DUI.
Hire an attorney OP.
It seems this might end up costing you more than 2000 zt if you consider possible impact to your job/future employment opportunity. In court they don't care if "this was my first time/it never happened to me". The only facts are your job/family, residency status/other permits and your BAC level on the night of the event.
@up the creek @dolnoslask Yes, that true after 6 months, but usually is matter in this kind of incident, or similar, because you can drive a car and be stopped and give this licence and all is okay, also rent a car, and so on.. but, yes, and also the license should be an "international" one, not just the normal one.. well, my residence status is for my wife, also I am working for 3 year here, I can prove that I am a normal citizen which had an unexpected situation, for sure it would be a "point" but I don't think so that it would deny a renew of my resident, it would be more a problem, maybe, if I want to apply for a citizen/nationality..
@nothanks I already hired an attorney (I will comment bellow), I have all legal here I have Karta Pobytu and also PESE, the car also have insurance and all the papers are in order. Thanks for the correction about the BAC I was missing a zero, here in Poland they are more strict because the country have a lot of problem with alcohol, so after 0.05 is a DWI and not a DUI, the DWI is a crime here, and that is the main problem.
Yes. after all the bureaucracy and paper work.. 3 patrol, 1 van, 10 official and 4/5 hours, which I spend more of them sit behind one car, they carry to home, I was only in the Police station to make two test more and I always was in the public space, it was not an arrest, it have other name in polish that I didn't at the moment.
I had a meeting yesterday with my attorney, I will comment what he told me to give an answer to you and also for future people with similar problem:
For the DWI, which I will plea bargain, I will have a fine of around 5000 zl plus a penalty which can be one or ar combination of the following: 1) a fine (another), 2) social work, 3) jail (may be suspended jail), so per example it could be 5000 zl + 3000 zl (other fine) or 5000 zl + 1000 zl + social work, per example.
The penalty is assigned by the prosecutor and discussed by two part for an arrangement, something the prosecutor do it directly by the police, because they are like some kind of table defined of which penalty could be for each case.
I will declare my responsibility on the charge pay the fine and try to get an arrangement on the penalty.. on the arrangement is important demostrate that I am a normal citizen, which have a stable and appropriate work, which have a family and that I am living here for lot of year ago and it is the first time that I have a criminal situation.
About the driver licence, it will be declared like I was driving without one, which have a fine of 50zl.
Plus the fine and the penalty, I will not able to drive a car in Poland for 3 years which could be reduce to one and half year after request, and a device is installed on my car (I have to pay for it of course..), an alcohol control device, I will need to blow and if all is okay the car will start if not, the car don't start.
So, that are the news and how the case will follow on the next months. About my situation on the place, I will present charges, but this will be a different history. About the jacket, it is a difference thing in another Komisariat which is all okay, and the owner of the jacket was the guy that wanted to help me and also they apply, without reason, pepper gas.
NoThanks. Poland has strict drink driving laws, only allowing 0.2 milligrams of alcohol per millilitre of blood, the OP was caught with 0.78 milligrams of alcohol per millilitre of blood. The reason the Police took him to his home is that he had NO documents on his person, so they are unable to process him. If you are the arresting officer, you pull over a driver who is a foreigner driving a Polish registered car, the foreigner has no ID, you test him and he is 4x over the limit, he then gives you an address, so you ask one of your colleagues in the area to visit this address and collect the detainees ID, at the supplied address the detainee's spouse search for the ID, the Police find a jacket with another ID inside and the spouse denies any knowledge of the owner of the ID. When questioned the detainee creates this elaborate story of how he was in a nightclub on his own, got into an altercation was ejected from the premises without his jacket, informed the security he had no jacket, was allowed access back to collect his jacket from the garderobe and accidently took someone else's jacket with their ID inside (theft) after being ejected from the club with his new jacket, he takes a taxi home, speaks to his lawyer, who informs him he should go to hospital for tests after being sprayed in the face by security (potential assault). At this point he jumps in his car knowing he has had at least 5 alcoholic drinks in the last three hours and drives to the hospital. First question if he is such a good citizen - why did he not drive to the club and hand in the jacket with the persons ID? he must have been fully aware he was in possession of someone else's belongings and more importantly he would have been able to get his own jacket with his expensive new phone. Why did he drive with full knowledge he was DUI? Here is my conclusion the OP is a typical foreigner macho type,he leaves his young wife at home with their young child, she most likely originates from a small village... He decides to go clubbing with his other foreigner mates even though he has a wife and small child, he is out chasing women drinking alcohol while his wife sits at home. He gets into a altercation in the club and the security throws him out, under the influence he gets verbal and throws the race card or talks about his human rights, all he wants is to get back in the club its fully of p$ssy, they have no right to throw him out he has his residency card now... Eventually someone comes to his rescue, the security allow him back to pick up his jacket, he decides to take a more expensive jacket than his to make them pay for throwing him out. He jumps in a taxi and goes home,at home the wife is sleeping, he calls his friends, establishes they have moved onto another club, he jumps in his car, while knowingly DUI and goes to meet his buddies, drops the car a few streets away from the club, so there is less police patrols, goes and meets his buddies and get trashed in his anger this is the reason for his blood being above 0.78 milli which is very high. after leaving the club he gets nabbed and the story begins. Hospital visit etc etc. OP if I am wrong you have the following a conversation which is on your number, your lawyer can ask your telephone operator for a time/date stamped recording of the conversation or the Police can. Second the Police could ask the security of the club for a video of you entering and exiting the club. Third the Police can ask for a video of you entering and exiting the hospital. If your statement to the Police is a fabrication and is proved you are in very serious trouble... If on the other hand it was out of character for you and you tell the Police the truth, you may only get a fine and a 3 year ban. The arresting officer must have thought they where onto something big with the OP, no ID, stolen documents at home????
The reason the Police took him to his home is that he had NO documents on his person, so they are unable to process him.
One patrol was to my home, to notify my wife and search my documents, finally on the place they change opinion and they just take some data but not my document.
Police find a jacket with another ID inside and the spouse denies any knowledge of the owner of the ID
It was on a different way, my spouse call to the police to give the jacket with the ID, and at the same time the patrol that was to search my ID meet the other police guys, so they are two different causes in two different police station. We both have to go to give testimony for the jacket cause. When the police return the jacket with ID to the guy, he was missing also some keys, so the police give the number of my wife, and the guy call her, then we realize that I had the jacket of this guy which try to help me, and I give him the jacket that I took from inside, he was trying to give it back.. when both of us where attacked by pepper gas. He is a witness of the situation, also he tell to my wife that the garderobe was full, so the jacket that I took was not from the garderobe, also my jacket was not in the garderobe.
why did he not drive to the club and hand in the jacket with the persons ID?
First, because I never reilase that the other jacket had ID inside, I did't checked the pocket, second return to the place where I was assaulted when I tried to get my personal possession and deny? and third I was not just for the alcohol, but also in a powerless state and shocked for the situation, so shocked that I drive my car in this state (anyway, that shocked will not matter for my charges on the DWI).
@up the creek Yes, I would love that they checked the camera because is true, I have been in the hospital, the place where I leave the car was in front of a big hospital, no club places near, residential zone. Also see my answer to your question above, they respond some of you accusations, doubts or Sherlock deductions.. Beside I could not call to my mates without phone(?).., and about my life and wife you are confuse, but for people like you, because for sure if I was polish you would not have this thinking about me, is how Poland is at the moment. Keep on this way.. "make Poland great again"..
reggianito, with all due respect it makes no difference to my life about your inability to keep within the limits of Polish law. The fact is by your own self admission you have been charged and you will face the penalty for the crimes you have committed. As a foreigner in Poland you have a responsibility not only to the nation which has allowed you to reside within its borders, but moreover to your wife and child. Your selfish acts will render you a criminal within Polish society and the EU proper, therefore tarnishing your good name and of your immediate. It will have an impact on your future car and health insurance or that of your wife if you have forced her to co-sign your insurance. If you apply for a future mortgage or loan this crime will have a negative score on your points. It is not for me to judge you,my own assumption of the above scenario is you have been frugal with the truth from the get-go and showed no empathy of your crime believing you are above the law. After meeting with your lawyer your realize of the severity of your actions has kicked in. As for me being Polish you are off course, I myself am the product of immigrants, I am a foreigner in Poland, I also recognise that I have a responsibility to keep within the realms of the law of my adopted nation. Furthermore your assertion about ' Make Poland Great again' I am assume is in relation to Trump's slogan ' Make America great again' so you under handly suggest I am some of right extremist, you are wrong I am center-right, although I am one of the many Europeans who has had enough of non Europeans coming to Europe and not sticking to the laws of society. Its about time you grew up and accepted your responsibility as a husband and father.
@up the creek I totally agree with your last post, which was totally different of your previous one, respectful and not xenophobic. I think as the same way that you. I was and I am aware of the severity of my act from the moment that it happen, that is because I wrote here, but I commit it without think, I had my mind blocked, it is of course not an excuse and also a reason of why I did it (the history behind).
I didn't meet the lawyer for it, in fact he leave more peaceful after the meeting and the future of the case, I will of course be responsible for my acts. Also, I am aware of the future issues that this problem could carry to me in the future.
@up the creek (I can't edit my previous post).. I didn't meet the lawyer for it, in fact he leave more peaceful after the meeting and the future of the case, I will of course be responsible for my acts. Also, I am aware of the issues that this problem could carry to me in the future if i stay leaving here.., I will write you the following in order that you know that you can not judge a person without know him/her first.. actually I was living with my wife on my country with a nice job on the government, in the judicial system (not a lawyer of course but not in administration, and important assignation anyway..).., we move here because she was missing a lot her family.. my son come later, if it is for me I would back to my country.. but life is life and something decision should have to be taken thinking in other persons too.. (yes, a thinking that I didn't have previously on the emotional and alcohol state that I was..), do not misunderstand, I like here too but for me this country need a little more of salt (making an analogy with food).
Reggainito, shock therapy is mostly reactive for the sane mind... It is always pleasant to see a sense of ordinary decency coming through, respect for other views is the legitimate authority on which democracies depend. Life is not about who you were, its about who you are now. I myself have days when I question my decision of moving to Poland, I quickly realise to make the most of the here and now. As an add on R, throwing the xenaphobe word around is a bit glib coming from you after the comments you have made about the natives of PO. As for racist attacks in PO, you should check the ENAR listing, Poland is very safe in comparison to most, it ranks in the top 20 on the global list, which does not include any South American countries.
Reggianito, your story had me on the edge of my seat. It maybe a good time to start keeping a diary of your swashbuckling exploits in Poland. And start looking for anyone interested in publishing your stories. Who knows, you may recover some of your "outlay" that way..
Let's see how I can tell you eveything in a simple way:
You will get a 5000 zl fine (money which go to the government (sic)) + a penality, the penality is negotiate with the prosecutor, it can be:
1) Jail in suspend: In suspend it mean that you are not going in the jail but if you are evolved in another 'crime' , the suspention stop automatically and you are going. For how long it depends the prosecutor deal with your layer, for me they were offering 2 years.
2) Social work Not sure which ones they are, and how much it also depends on the deal with the prosecutor.
3) Another fine (I choose this one) This fine is money going to some non governmental instituion, at beginig the prosecutor wanted that I paid 6000 zl but my layer (against what he said) can negotiate it to 4000 zl (which again, against him it was a good deal because years behind year this sum is more and more).
Additionally I can't drive in Poland for 4 years (the base start at 2, but also it depends the prosecutor), after 2 year is possible to do a request to the court and they allow you to install a device in the car that only turn on when you blow on it and there is not alcohol.
To recap: 5/6 months till sanitation was applied 5000 fine + 4000 penalty fine
I could pay all the fines in 3 months, I mean, meanwhile you deposit it, there is not problem, but do it by part is not regulated.
Also if you have polish driving license card they will take it.
So, not big deal but yes quite expensive.
My recommendation is that you find a good lawyer, I think that mine could do better deal with the prosecutor, and if it help, I paid him 2000 zl. Anyway, beside the deal with prosecutor there is a lot of paperwork and so on, so you will need one.
If you have another question, feel free to write :) Good luck!
I am not Polish citizen - Have Residence card & family along with me. Mine is Drink & Drive - I caught just in front of my home gate - meter showed as 0.78 mg/l(not sure it shown that much), since I has couple of beers & 2 shots of vodka - I was there for the night.
Before I ask you my many doubts - I have few very important questions/concerns. 1) I understand from your statements - that Jail is not must or I will not go to jail - means they will NOT let me in Jail, if I agree for penalty fine?
2) Will this case/judgement impact for my Permanent Residence card process(which i may do next year beginning) or while extending my current residence card ?
3) How long this case process will take - until judgement?
Please I request you to be patient with my questions - as I am in huge worries, as it happened last saturday.
1) Yes, you will not go jail, also if you choose the jail penalty.. which is in real "suspended jail"
2) I don't know, I was wondering the same, previously before I applied for the renew of the resident I had a similar issue but lower, in bike, and I was a bit worry about the same but they told that not problem about it. In other hand, this is something very common between polish citizens that why fee and penalty are very high.., I think that will not affect, but not sure.
3) As I wrote you, from the case started for me it took like 5/6 month but on my case as it was at end of the year and usually for statistic they want to close as much cases as possible, my lawyer hurry up to close it quickly and they agree.. so, till they stop me and since I got the letter to start to pay it was like 7 months.
As I wrote you before, I think that my lawyer was not very experienced, I think that I could have a better deal.., so I will not totally recommend him, find anyone which also speak English, it will be fine :) the procedure are quite normal for them. Usually it is only paperwork, some meeting at begging in the police and the more important the deal with the prosecutor !
4) Please let me know - when you got first notification or letter from the court to appear - how many days it took approximately for the first letter/notification?
Since I have to go to my home country for an 3 weeks(in August) of trip to bring my family back.
5) Is this 5000 zl fine depends on each person's income? Did you submitted/provided your payslip or income proof to the court? Since i was told by some friends - that the fine will be fixed based on our monthly income - is it true? If so, How I can make the fine as less as possible with what reasons - please suggest if you have any idea?
Expecting for your valuable inputs!
Archives - 2010-2019 / Law / DUI/DWI (Driving under alcohol influence) as a foreign with residence in Poland (and other issues)
