My Poland born father served in a foreign army - Polish citizenship questions

I don't think that's the issues as much as the fact that the Polish parent (or parents) never asserted citizenship which means the OP doesn't have that many options as citizenship through a grandfather doesn't work.

You're the one making the claim here that they are practising lawyers, you're the one who needs to stand it up: give us their legal advisor/advocate bar association membership numbers. Of course, if it turns out that somebody claims to be a practising legal advisor without having the right to do that, their views on what Polish law does and does not say can be safely discounted.


Given some of the habits of the Second Republic, such as denying Polish citizens the right to enter Poland due to their religious beliefs, not having democratic elections and locking people up in a concentration camp, one would very much hope that any Polish government ignores certain IIRP laws and practices.


If people who claim to be of Polish descent aren't willing to move to Poland and pay their taxes here for at least a couple of years, why should they be granted the benefits of Polish citizenship? With rights come responsibilities and people who refuse to accept all of their responsibilities shouldn't keep all of their rights.

It would work fine if the grandfather had been born after around 1934. Claiming citizenship through a parent born before then would have similar problems. It's not the generation. The problem is with the administrative interpretation of the 1920 Citizenship law. (Under Poland's founding treaties after WWI, people were actually given the opportunity to "vote with their feet", and choose their citizenship. That is referenced in the 1920 law. No such choice would be given by the communist regime.) Those websites have been online for many years now. If these people were engaged in fraud, I expect that the Polish authorities would have taken action against them by now. I am still waiting for those alleging fraud on the part of the agents or lawyers to demonstrate what language they have manipulated and translated improperly on the websites, and waiting, and waiting...

Which the grandfather in question..... wasn't. So it's on to the parents.


Polish laws tend to be badly and ambiguously written which means that the only binding interpretation is that taken by the official who's looking at your case.


Only if complaints were made about them to the government. Otherwise it doesn't necessarily monitor what people say the law means in English when only the Polish version is binding (and liable to be ambiguous)


Serve up the relevant chunk of law in Polish and I'll take a whack at it. How well do you know Polish? Well enough to read the laws in the original?

And so have complaints from people whose money was taken and then got nothing in return.


How many times are you going to claim that people who are not bar association members are practicing lawyers?


Much as people who claim to be of Polish descent are now: all they need to do is move here, keep their noses clean and their taxes paid for a couple of years and they get Polish citizenship. I have zero sympathy for people who can't be bothered to do that.

My transcription from the government's website:
"Osoby, obowiązne do czynnej slużby wojskowej, nabyć mogą obywatelstwo obce nie inaczej, jak po wyjednaniu na to zezwolenia do Ministra Spraw Wojskowych, w przeciwnym razie wobec Państwa Polskiego nie przestaną być uważane za obywateli polskich."

isap.sejm.gov.pl/DetailsServlet?id=WDU19200070044

It seems clear to me that the Polish state that was the Second Polish Republic never ceased to recognize them as its citizens absent completion or excuse from mandatory military service.

Of course - this is the whole point. Some people just want to have their cake and eat it. Why hand out citizenship to people thousands of miles away whose ancestors left the country for good.

Thanks for the link. The most important bit of information at said link was

status: repealed
date of repeal: January 19, 1951

following the links through current laws I found the uniform text of the current law for obtaining Polish citizenship or for having Polish citizenship recognized (mentioned on the first page). If your Polish citizenship was not recognized by 2012 then this is the only relevant law in your case. some random law from 1920 have no legal bearing and anyone who tells you that they do is a fraud and a scamster.

I'm not going to read it because it's 24 pages long.

isap.sejm.gov.pl/DetailsServlet?id=WDU20120000161

I don't see an English version but it can possibly be found at: Dz.U. 2012 poz. 161

I assume you're familiar with this page.

Erm, the statute that you cited makes reference to the 1920 Polish Citizenship Act and subsequent revisions. If you had bothered to read it, you might know that, but common sense is that if one's father or grandfather was born before the commie law of 1951, then the 1920 law must be consulted to determine their status. Since the Polish Constitution has guarantees of equality before the law, against discrimination, and recognizes a right for its citizens to live abroad and enjoy the protection of the Polish state while doing so, any law that infringes on these rights will be invalid.

I assume you're familiar with the Polish constitution.

BTW, since you're plainly not a lawyer, you might be careful about calling lawyers who actually read the laws that you don't frauds and scamsters. They might be reading your comments here.

Lastly, its not about me. This is about the OP, who plainly did not have here citizenship recognized before 2012.

The only reference I saw (using search: 1920) was about restoring lost citizenship (to the people who lost it) and not about determining or acknowledging the citizenship of their descendents.


Then they need to look at the 2012 law.

Dear ladies and gentlemen.

I got mail today which was sent by some Internet user that my law office was mentioned on some Internet forum and sent me link here.

I'm the owner of CK Law Office where Michał Wiśniewski and doktor Grzegorz Bajorek also work.

CK Law Office is not any "company" but it's "Advocate's Office" and please just not confuse Michal Wiśniewski with Roman Wiśniewski. Roman Wiśniewski never worked in my office nor I do not know this person. There is just similiarity of surnames - but "Wiśniewski" surname is just very popular in Poland - like Smith in US or Connor in Scotland.

My law office, my website and my person is not related with Roman Wiśniewski in any way. Michał Wiśniewski who is absolutely different person then Roman Wiśniewski. Please do not confuse them!

I'm the certified attorney and advocate and I'm officialy registered in Polish Bar Association, you can verify it here:

rejestradwokatow.pl/adwokat/szczegoly/id/44813

This is just information for all participants of this discussion.

Anyway - if anybody will have any qustions related to polish citizenship law, I kindly invite everybody to contact my law office by phone or by mail and we will be glad to help.

Piotr Cybula, advocate.

How does he balance his musical career with working as a lawyer?

Why indeed, and even more so when referring to those people who claim to be descended from Poles but when they come to Poland don't even bother to pay the taxes they owe.


What about your colleagues, Mr Wisniewski and dr Bajorek, what are their bar association membership numbers? It has been claimed here that they are both practicing lawyers.

This is a key issue. It's a good principle in life to be belt and braces careful about any paperwork connected to any interactions with the state. Otherwise it just stores up trouble for any future interactions, as our 'legal eagle' (among other usernames) has found to his cost.


I bet that brightly coloured hair really brightens up a courtroom.

Absolutely. The fact that our high flying friend has so far been unable to apply for citizenship through naturalisation or through the Presidential route suggests problems in that respect. It's also worth remembering that the authorities can seize the money from any Polish bank account for tax/social insurance arrears, meaning that it's unlikely that he will ever be able to work in Poland again.

Either way, one would be well advised to not take advice from guest posters. Who knows what their real intention is, particularly if they keep pushing certain law offices while not being able to provide facts (in Polish) relating to the law in question.

Neither of these are difficult for the many people who fit the straightforward criteria. Basically, you can get it quite easily, if not through one method, then through the other. Permanent residence isn't hard for Americans to get either.

If he doesn't fit that criteria, it begs the question why he wants it in the first place - another passport to which he isn't entitled? They still swipe the same passport going into PL, and if there are any issues with the state, his other American one won't help at all.


Very much so.