Opening "Budke Gastronomiczna"

Hi,

So I've been in Poland for a year. First 8 months on vacation, next 4 months looking for a job. I like it here, but job-wise its terrible. So its come time to decide whether I want to go back home, or "create my own job". I've been brainstorming several ventures and come up with this business idea: A "Budka Gastronomiczna" on a "trasowa droga" between 2 towns in Kujawia. Selling kebabs as they are most popular. In a economic crisis people still must eat, and eat all-year-round.

Thoughts Ideas ???

ok I'll start: watch a lot of Gordon Ramsay's kitchen nightmares! For the most part keep it simple, keep it clean, make it affordable and use fresh local produce. Sounds cliché but from a customer's point of view it's a winner.

Do crunch your numbers before mortgaging your future! don't invest more than what you're willing to lose and don't try to take a step longer than your leg.

Best of luck with your future endeavor.

That's pretty affluent and intelligent advice. I certainly wouldn't invest more than I have, but would make use of a EU grant for funding and trial this idea for 1 year.

I think its a good idea overall, but ZUS scares me to be honest.

Then for what is worth let me add this little story:

A long time ago, in my native country, the government invested millions granting funds for people in the textile sector to prepare themselves for an upcoming EU law that would open the market to the Chinese (ie large quantities of cheaper product would soon flood the market). When the time arrived the Chinese-made products literally killed the textile industry. The government then launched an investigation to try and learn why that happened and why the grants had failed to prevent this.

It turns out that a big (huge) majority of them had invested not in modern machinery, not in skilled labour, not in differentiating themselves with a better product but in new cars, new computers and new smartphones for the famil.. ahem workers. Basically they replaced their ageing Suzuki and Isuzu vans with top of the line BMW Tourings and such.

So word of advice... put the money where it's worth! Don't be tempted to use it to massage your ego because karma is a b*tch and will come back to bite you in the arse. It's so refreshing to see people roll up their sleeves and sweating their way to the top instead of sitting idle moaning and demanding everything from everyone except themselves. Keep us updated mate, go social, spread the word via Twitter, Facebook and whatever people use. I'll be happy to pay you a visit in the future.

could you do something better than a kebab? it is street meat and although popular it is garbage food. I realize that you want to appeal to the masses that drive the route, particularly the truckers- but doesn't mean the food has to be crap.

What about lovely sandwiches on fresh bread?

Do something you like to do- not just scrape meat off a stick and sell it so you can pay the bills.

Ryz, about the funding, I look at it like this: All I need is about 40-60 thousand zl to buy one of those "gastronomicznych przyczep/kontenerow". I don't care for other stuff. If the business goes upside down within 12 months then the fundee has to repay the dotation, so given the "IF" I'd rather borrow as little as possible. Oh if my idea materializes then I'll gladly give you a free kebab on the house.

newpip, kebabs do appeal to the masses, and "mase robi kase". Youth's will go for kebabs over a healthy sandwich. Especially...hey now here is the proven thing about hunger... the hungrier someone is, the more they crave unhealthy food. proven scientifically. I prefer healthy sandwiches like PRET in London, but I can't envision the masses going for it.

Here is my breakdown:
50 Kebabs a day for 10zl = 500zl a day X 30 days = 15,000zl a month
15,000 - 7500 (half is the production cost of a kebab) = 7500
MINUS 2000 (elec, water, gas)
MINUS 1000 (bloody ZUS)
MINUS Czynsz/Dzierzawe 100zl
= 4400 - 19% taxes
= 3500
MINUS 1 worker 2000zl
= 1500zl for me

It's not worth the invcstment, then, if this is all that you exect to make. Certainly not worth the risk, and the food business is a very risky business indeed.

Might as well try to make a living as a teacher already, or work in a call center. Better yet, translate. There's plenty of work if you have a specialty.

Build a best/worst scenario for the following time frames:

- day 1 to year 2
- year 2 to year 5
- year 5 and beyond

A more realistic approach would be aiming to break even by year 2 and getting yourself a salary by year 5. Everything you make until then should be put back into the business.

In the meanwhile you might have to live from and for your business, meaning live where you work and eat what you sell. I wouldn't even think of staff costs or having a social life until I break even. Unless you have a partner willing to help, expect to be burning the midnight oil in order to reach that volume of sales you aim for.

I only know personally one restaurateur. He's in London, started with one small bistro, now runs 3 restaurants and although he's only 6 years older than me he looks like he could be my father. It's not to discourage you but success doesn't come cheap. You know what they say, success is 10 percent inspiration and 90 percent perspiration.

It's highly unlikely that you'll get EU funding anytime soon as mostly everything has been spent from this budget cycle - and EU funds that don't require you to invest your own money tend to be aimed at priority groups - which you probably aren't. I've got a bit of knowledge in this field - and I can tell you that most funding opportunities require you to invest up to 75% of your own money.


Like I said above, it's highly unlikely that you'll get funding to open a kebab shop. EU money - when it's available like you say - tends to attract a hell of a lot of applications and it's virtually impossible to get if you aren't one of the priority groups. It's also worth pointing out that they normally ask for a considerable amount of documentation proving that you can do what you want to do - that means sworn translations of all your diplomas/etc.


What about your rent? You're not going to manage to rent a place at the side of the road for 1500zl...

It's hard to imagine a roadside kebab stall attracting EU funding. The road maybe, but not the chuck wagon in the layby.

this is my thought too. Perhaps if you could spin it so that it is fresh fast Polish food, you might fare better.

If it gives huge portions and decent sized cups of tea etc, plus stuff that will appeal to international drivers who probably won't have a packed lunch, it could do very well.

Open 2 and you'll make 3000zl


hate it


Re-investment is everything


According to my calculations, selling 50 kebabs should cover it. Even if my own earnings will be for example 1000zl less, meaning 500zl a month for me, its still affordable (just need to open like 4).


In the closest town, a 15m2 space near the old town costs 500zl. So assuming on a road between 2 towns (in amongst villages), it will be significantly cheaper than 500zl. Just need to borrow 10 x 5m from a farmer and I cant work from there.


I've got that covered. Got someone on the inside, who say's that I could get a grant for whatever I want. She would make sure of it.

Three times as much work and four times as many problems. And do you seriously expect a single member of staff to manage the whole operation with only two hours per day of supervision from you?


Good luck with that: after the epic waste that resulted from previous grants, the process has tightened up somewhat. In many ways it is classic Poland: the first dollops of cash from the EU was splashed out with far too much abandon and now the pendulum has swung too far the other way and it's too difficult to get your hands on EU funds.

What other work do you mean? With good organization and staff it should be ok. I AM afraid, that I will basically work from early to late, and that's not living at all. BUT I don't see it that way if ALL the cogs are working properly.


yes. if they can't then fire them and hire someone else. all they have to do is make kababs all day. I'm the one who organizes re-stocking etc.


I won't deny that the administrative paperwork will probably overwhelm me.

What about the GDDKiA? They will get involved if your place causes any disturbance to the main road - and you also have the issue of needing to comply with planning laws.


She says it, but it's rare that such funds are handed out (as I said, most funds are for people who invest their own money) - and the numbers applying as such that she might not be able to help. Don't forget that these things are rarely decided by one person.

It's worth pointing out that there won't be any new funds until next year - and that it's quite rare for funding to be handed out for start ups. I can give several examples - my boss attracted quite a bit of funding to run courses. But we already had the building, equipment and so on. That's normally how the EU cash works.


For a start :

Sanepid will be interested - you need to make sure that they're happy. Have you thought about how you're going to keep them quiet?

Security - how will you ensure that the site is secure, as well as providing adequate parking facilities?
BHP - what about the safety of people on your site?

My biggest question would be to ask how you're going to deal with the GDDKiA and Sanepid.

From a purely practical point of view, where are his staff supposed to go to the toilet?

I'd have my doubts as to whether Sanepid would be satisfied with a (to use the Polish word) toi-toi if food is involved.

If that won't work, then I'll use my savings which I've put aside for investment.


Cross that bridge when I get to it. I don't think anyone can plan what sanepid will say, but I'd have to try to cover what I can. Normally these "budki gastronomiczne" can come with a sanepid certificate.


Cameras. I've installed a many.


Not familiar with BHP, so its something I'd have to get a grasp of.


Need to look into this still. I am after all in preliminary planning, getting facts together, trying to test plausibility.

That was a misconception from the very start! You should have opened your "budka gastronomiczna" first and then, if it's a success, take your 8-month long vacation. But now, frankly, I would advise you


. You've just had your "vacation".

See Attachment

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  Here is a photoshopped visual representation of my idea
  

Correct me if I am wrong, but the salaries your business pays should be deducted from your gross revenue before tax, not net revenue after tax (unless you are paying your employees cash under the table)...

So to correct:
4400 - 2000 (salary of employee) = 2400
Less 19% tax = 1900 (actually 1944).
So you pay around PLN 400 extra for declaring your tax on the wrong amount.

Another thing you should know, if a prepared food item costs you 50% of its retail price just in raw material, then you are not on top of your game. Cost of raw material in the restaurant industry (particularly in fast food) should not exceed 25% of the retail price (and in some cases, can be as low as 10%).

For example, a chicken kebab:
Chicken 100g: 2.00 (for ready skinless chicken breast bought retail, so it can be reduced by buying whole sale and more so by buying whole chicken and deboning it yourself)

Flat Bread: 0.15 (can be reduced by half if you bake your own bread)
Veggies: 0.15
Seasoning: 0.15 (sauce, spices etc.)
Wrapper: 0.05
Total: PLN 2.50

However, I think your estimate of energy cost is a bit conservative. With the grill fired up several hours a day, energy may very well be your highest overhead.

Why?


thanks for pointing that out.


I thought so too to be honest, but seeing as I haven't contacted any companies yet, I've estimated 50% as the worst case in terms of margins.


Probably. Especially if its powered by a generator.

It's probably a better idea rather than waiting for any potential EU funding to come online.


The certificate itself won't mean much - your business still has to keep Sanepid happy. My advice in this respect would be - before you do anything else, you have to understand what Sanepid is looking for and how you can keep them happy. They are the real make or break guys for a food business.


There are rules surrounding the usage of cameras in Poland in public areas - have you familiarised yourself with them?


This is the question - how can you ensure the safety of a solitary worker on site?

I just can't see the GDDKiA agreeing to what you've done there. You need to find an area that you can rent that is clearly off-road, without causing an obstruction to the main road, that has enough space for parking and so on. Such a place isn't going to come cheap, because anyone owning such a place will know of its potential to be used for such a thing.

All valid points. I find the idea great, however there are many many aspects which need to be addressed: Sanepid, GDDKiA, security, BHP, electricity, etc. I'm certain the idea is good[b][/b]. People must eat all year. Delph I think your point about obstruction on the roads is my most major concern, as the other details can be ironed out. Other people have done it (maybe not beside main roads, but on streets), check out these fotos:

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  4_kebab_yasir.jpg
  
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  d37d95d16d63edd3bfdc.jpg
  
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  kurcze_pieczone_budk.jpg
  
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  z8511607XBudkazke.jpg
  

This is probably the crucial thing - most of these stands are not on main roads. The second picture looks to be in an area that was built for the stand - so you'd have to build an access road (could be done quite cheaply if you can get permission) for it.

Why not open up one in the city first? There's one in my part of the city that does very well for itself late at night.

Cities are great for business but I'm adament about starting out in the country. A service road coming off the main road is a good idea. Need some land :/

The other thing that should be mentioned to you : you need to be aware of what's going on locally before opening such a place.

By that, I mean that you should know if you're stepping on any toes before opening such a place.

what about a chippy truck. surely there is a need for that....and you can drive it home.

I am aware whose toes im walking on, roughly. And the chip truck is always good. Everyone knows that on chips you can easily earn 300-400% but need something extra I think a usp. I will examine everything more in depth in the next few days.