Polish business haven't got a clue: Discuss.

??? I didn't know they are listed.Now, if you
talking MTLQQ it has market c(r)ap of $147 milions.You call it huge?As for GM I heard they are about to try to sell some stocks soon and I wonder who will buy it?


As well don't.FNM 432M FMCC 232M.I think in last Q FMCC lost $4B.


Naither is making any money.


Congo?Well, they made some little investment in Canada lately but it's only $40M and KGHM net profit this year is expected to be 4 B PLN.

That should have read "had" a huge market cap.

Anyway, read the thread for what I was getting at. You just kind of ruined the subtle point I was trying to make.

Market cap doesn't equal success.

Gm is crap. ford is the only viable american auto maker in the usa. their stock's value has doubled since last year.

We dabbled in it, had some bad experiences, theres no money and quite a few didnt pay rent. Once they hand over a deposit they think they own you and the phone never stops ringing for every single little problem. You have the tenants giving you an ear bashing this side and the owners from abroad - FCUK that. A few tenants signed a contract paid one months rent and a deposit and you never heard from them again, till you threaten court action, then they just moved out. Some had dogs which trashed apartments chewing up the skirting boards and p1ssing all over the laminate floor.

The mark up is around 10% so average 130 PLN / month / property rented, you'd need 40 for it to provide a decent income and that isnt worth the hassle.

Would it be possible to use a notarized copy of your passport in such, situation?
The reason I mention this is because next year I will have to renew my passport and I want to pre-empt any situation of not having/needing my passport, while it is being renewed.

Doing business in Poland, I'd imagine, is rather like in any number of Eastern European countries (especially Russian Federation): bribery, corruption and favor trading trump all! It would seem pointless to bother following local "procedures", as paying off the right person, much as in Sicily etc.., paves the way just fine in practically every situation I can think of (as well as some I can't LOL).

Abandon the conception that doing business is as it is in Germany or the Scandinavian countries!

You wont have that problem as now all UK passports applied for outside the UK are handled via the Dusseldorf consulate in Germany, they use DHL so no Polish post offices. Be prepared however for the Polish DHL to hang on to the parcel for days, with no real excuse.

I tracked mine and it was like, Dusseldorf arrive 14:30, Dusseldorf processed 14:50, then Liepzig arrive 18:00, Leipzig processed 18:40. Then it reached the DHL processing center in Wroclaw, they called and confirmed the address and said delivery would happen the next morning. Four days later it shows up. DHL guarantee 24 hour delivery from dispatch, but obviously not in Poland.

I'm just expressing my opinions, I'm not quite sure why you're letting this upset you so much.

The corruption in Poland is horrendous and investing there is generally perceived as a "risky business". The majority of Polish businesses can not compete in the global market, please take a look at some of the British or German businesses. That's where you guys need to be, otherwise there is no point in talking about it.

If I may ask, what do you do for a living?

You should ask where he is from first.


I, coca cola, Dell, IBM, MAN etc... disagree.

Do you work here in Poland at all?

No sir, I do not.

but here is a list of some of the showstoppers, for me, at least...

-building honest business relationships is very difficult in Poland
-lack of experienced workforce
-complicated labor laws
-complicated tax laws
-complicated regulations
-uncertain financial future of the country
-poorly organized government, perceived by "outsiders" as chaotic

you know this for sure?


experienced with what exactly


it's labour, not labor...no more so than any other EU country


what country hasn't got these?


....yea, same as last one


...yea, also the same


perceived by you that is

So what's with all the negativity?

I agree to an extent about some of your points, just definitely not enough from stopping me to continue to work here.


Really, honesty is an issue everywhere.
I work with many people and on the whole have a very good relationship with them.


I agree, over educated under experienced is the general rule.


I don't think so, I mean where is the complications for you?
I would say that the employment taxes are too high but that's a different thing.


Again Where are the complicated regulations?
Every country has it's own way of doing things, Britain do not do things exactly like Germany yet, neither does Poland.
I don't think I will understand your point unless you give me an appropriate example.


As opposed to where? Poland has avoided a recession, no banks have folded, European funds etc..
So far so good.


Things are getting better here, the bureaucracy which I think you are eluding to is getting much easier, it takes time.
Things are slower here than in other countries with a history of competitive business, communism seen to that but if you compare Poland to other ex-communist countries, which I believe is a much better comparison as they are going through a similar process, you will find Poland miles ahead of the rest.

So although I think i see where you are coming from, I would not say that is how it is (full stop).

You sound like a business man and Poland is an emerging market, you should be able to see opportunity, I honestly do.

Not if you know how.


Experience is there, just got to look for it.


Complicated in most countries. You just have to learn them.


Again, like I said before, same with most countries. But you harvest what you reap.


Work around it.

I'm sure you do, and that is why you're a big time incognito investor full of useful knowledge selling British language lessons to plastic Poles perhaps?


"labour" is the British spelling of the same word


Check the link below


Like i said before, some of you must be high on something.

Please go ahead and check this link, very educational, Poland is behind South Africa and Lithuania as far as being business-friendly. It ranks particularly low on taxes, red tape, property rights, market performance, technology and corruption.

forbes.com/lists/2010/6/best-countries-10_Best-Countries-for-Business_Rank_2.html


I don't have to work around it, I and most other people choose to do business elsewhere.

Just spilled my drink.

Taxes are incredibly high, bureaucracy as well, property rights are in a sad shape, market performance is only doing well due to a zloty with a destroyed purchasing power, tech....really? I can't find a decent network engineer to save my life. Corruption, no comment.

Poland uses the british standard, if you want to do business here you should know that, non of your americanisms here :-P

I would read the link but Forbes said that liverpool FC was worth over 600m but it was sold for 300m.
But then again if it was written in an american magazine then it must be true, the american media would never ever ever lie to us, ever (^_^)

Actually, Poland tends to use EU English, not British English.

er....yea, sure it does *nods head*

ec.europa.eu/translation/writing/style_guides/english/style_guide_en.pdf

page 7 paragraph 2 and 3,

says there's no difference other than the EU have invented some words for ease of communication.

Although some Irish people will argue that what's used in Ireland is called Hiberno-English, but that's a thread for another time

Not only have they invented some words, they have started to cruelly abuse English words! Even after all these years I still cringe when I see "a concentration of business entities". And some of the stuff I've been reading recently about train travel is so far from Queen's English that it makes Cajun look like proper French!

According to Doing Business 2011 Report Poland is 70th, far far away from top countries.

My data was from 2009. I guess that proves my point even better.

Not difficult at all. As long as you make it clear from the outset that you won't tolerate nonsense, people will treat you equally. The most successful people I know in Poland all "talk softly, but carry a large stick".


True. But that will change in time.


Polish tax law is quite simple compared to many countries. It's a bit arcane at times, but what tax code isn't? As for labour laws - they're more or less in line with EU law. There are some annoying provisions, but on the whole, if you stick to them, then you won't have problems.


Same everywhere.


Actually, most foreigners perceive the government here as stable nowadays. The financial future of the country - what country is financially secure? I've read a report recently about how even Switzerland could fall.

The real problem Poland has is that it doesn't have the ability to dynamically change, unlike places like Estonia. There's 38 million Poles here - it's just not that easy to change things overnight. The country is flawed, but again, what country isn't?

Your career, as opposed to those expats still teaching English, sure sounds to be on the upswing. What exotic bullshit name do you prefer for your "profession?"

^that made me laugh inside.

Phuck them.This is the president Poland needs.
...

Who are the most successful people that you personally know?


How long do you think it's going to take? The majority of young people who graduate have a very slim chance on getting a real job in Poland this year.


the devil is in the details...


What do you know about regulations in other countries? Have you tried to conduct any type of business outside of Poland?


Interesting, where did you read that?

I detect a hint of bitterness and jealousy. Exactly what I'd come to expect from a lying Jew-hater.


Lawyers, doctors, several medium sized company owners, some senior management of public institutions. All of them practice the exact same philosophy - and funnily enough, all of them are successful. It's really not a bad rule to practice.


Really? Got any evidence to back up this claim?

I mean, you didn't even know about there being an election this year, so what makes you suddenly so knowledgable about Poland?


And Polish tax and labour law really isn't that difficult. The problem with the labour law is the rights given to employees, not the law itself.


I know about the UK, Irish and French systems fairly well. I've also got an idea about the German system. If you think Poland is difficult, then you should see the absurdities contained within French company law!

I guess that's what happens when people are outsourcing to Asia. What do people think? Do they really think that everybody will become self-employed, a business owner, scientist or a manager after university or college? There are only so many jobs. Hey, education is one thing, but sweet dreams are something else.

and the key to their success is "talk softly, but carry a large stick"... That's how it probably works in Russia.
Here people work hard, make the right decisions, take calculated risks and research the market.

You talk like a kid. Do you manage any people at all?


I have some family there. They visit us here on occasion. They may be some of those lawyers, doctors, medium size company owners that you know.


Did you pull this out of a Polish business book? or the Giant Jesus told you that?

Seriously, stuff you're saying doesn't make any sense. The large part of the labor law are the rights given to the employees. Those laws are flawed, outdated and make no sense in Poland...

For instance, laws in the US give way more protection to the employee than in Poland.


Do you know it first hand or did you just read an article about it? The people who write articles in your local newspapers are as clueless as you. Basically one idiot is telling a story to another.

So Havok, you don't live here, you don't do business here, have you ever done business here and if so, when?