Polish business haven't got a clue: Discuss.

I wonder are there any other expats here who work for mickey mouse Polish companies who haven't got clue what they are doing?

Who would stay on with a company like that unless you're doing reorg work? Go work for a decent company.

You'll find the proportion of locals working for Brit SMEs who don't have a clue to be much the same. What the man said - if you don't like it sling your hook and use your competitive advantage, assuming you have one.

Who would waste their time in such a company? There's so much opportunity in Poland that there's really no excuse to waste your time in such a company.

Thats not really the point though, i expect most English speaking foreigners are teaching English, thus they are working and getting paid. The companies "not having a clue" is irrelevant as long as one gets paid.


anybody thats getting paid.


What opportunity? you've been here over two years and still teaching English, you had a crack at the company thing and it didnt work out, right?

That's fair enough, but money isn't everything. If you work with idiots because the pay is a little better, is it really worth the tradeoff? Everyone has their own limits for that tradeoff..

Being paid is hardly the be all and end all - I met a few expats in Warsaw a while ago who had earnt good money in Poland, but they were still teaching English and had nothing of a "career" to speak of. Sure, they had a nice house and had done well, but still...it seemed to me as if they were distinctly unsatisfied with where they ended up in life.

For what it's worth, I only take contracts these days that are good for me - the money is absolutely irrelevant. I've just started teaching a class (foot in the door, etc) at one of the private universities - the money is rubbish, but it's a start.


I didn't bother to put any effort in, to be honest. Really, if I could be bothered - then it would have been worthwhile to hire someone full time to work on it. There's definitely a huge market for providing professional services for foreigners - like a "one stop" solution for all their needs. But it requires a huge investment of time to build up a decent network of "suppliers" who can be relied on, and it just wasn't worth it when there's more money to be made from teaching.

I can think of one area that is Polish-dominated, yet there could be a hell of a lot of money involved for an expat willing to put the time in.


I couldn't stand it. Working with idiots and going nowhere is not worth any amount of money - I'd rather be poorer and progressing than taking more money to suffer in silence. Anyway, there must be a reason why they're offering more money...

Wroclaw Boy wrote:


right.

oh come on Delph, you knew i'd have to highlight this one.

Delphiandomine wrote:


really?

Anywho, could you give us some examples of not knowing what they're doing? Anything in particular that stands out?

The post office: my wife washed my passport so i applied for a new one and relinquished the washed one to the warsaw consulate, the poctex delivery guy never showed up (not that i knew anyway) so when i visited the post office to get my passport they asked for a pesel (which i didn't have) or my passport for ID, my passport was in the bloody envelope i was trying to collect.

Bullseye! This is the root cause of delphi's grumpiness: failed businessman, stuck teaching english in a foreign land.

I'm writing about SMEs, not language schools which are intrinsically mickey mouse.

It is the complete lack of understanding anything which I would classify as normal business practice is hair raising. What compounds the insult is the arrogant attitude which the bosses display, they are never wrong.

Just out of curiosity, how'd you collect it in the end? British consulates don't provide you with temporary passports while waiting for your replacement? I'm guessing that's only in the EU?

No, they don't, which makes it impossible for a Brit to live in Poland long-term without breaking Polish law.

Ohh i had to call in the big guns, fortunately i had anticipated the situation and my wife was on hand with some choice words of wisdom. I did have a drivers license and although reluctant they accepted that, we said let us open the envelope and we'll prove its my passport.

In the UK utility bills and such are fine, here its passport/pesel or no deal, cant blame them really with the amount shite people pull over here.

Examples or it didn't happen.


So you've been insulted, your poor thing. Yeah, the Western Man's Burden is heavy indeed...

I think it would be more useful to provide an example of a successful Polish business. Are they any out there?

Of course there aren't any. The whole country has gone bankrupt overnight - didn't you notice? <sarcasm mode off>

Think of the Polish cosmetic industry - Ziaja, Eris, Bielenda, Farmona. They all started out as tiny businesses. Look where they are now.

Can't imagine how a guy like Havok could have overlooked that lot :)

But you're absolutely right, of course. And some of the biggest successes are off-radar because they will never be floated on the stock exchange. I'm thinking the market gardeners, the small software shops (up to, say, 20 employees, more frequently around 5-10) and some of the better restaurant franchises (I had the idea of a pierogarnia ages ago, but the world wasn't yet ready :) )

Compare PL today to the situation in 1993 when I first got here and no way can you say business has not taken off. If that seems to be in spite of the competencies of business owners, don't forget that only 1 in about 5 SMEs in the UK makes it past 4 years. That level of natural wastage is systemic and occurs pretty much everywhere.

What's their stock price? what stock exchange are they on? i can't find them on NYSE or NASDAQ, maybe Euronext? Honestly i would like to look'em up.

Uh, dude: Polish companies. Never thought to look at the WIG20?

There are some large IT companies out there as well. Asseco comes to mind, Ericpol is pretty big too...There are actually quite a few big homegrown companies in IT and Telecom..

You and I both know that a bit of spamming online doesn't make a business ;) It would have taken much, much more man hours to promote - though to be fair, I'm still getting a lot of e-mails about it. It's all passed on now though.


PZU and PKO BP are starting to stick their nose into other countries too.


Jan Kulczyk mean nothing to you?

Where do those leads come from? what kind of exposure does the company have? i remember you saying 5-10 a week, that's pretty good.


I think money in the form of advertising was the solution.

A lot of it comes from the various expat websites - I went around submitting my details, filling in profiles and so on. Ben's excellent BritishinPoland site has referred a few as well.

The problem is that 5-10 e-mails sounds good, but most of them are from people who just want to move here for whatever reason - usually because they've heard that Poland is an easy place to gain citizenship. I'd say there's only really 2-3 e-mails a week that are worthwhile - usually involving problems with Polish inheritances or citizenship. But - exposure wise, there's really nothing. I'm bewildered as to why people keep e-mailing though - I really haven't done a thing with it since well before August.

But anyway, they're all sent to a lawyer friend now - she's very interested in dealing with foreigners, and she refers people to me for English classes - so it's a win-win scenario at the minute.


That too - I'd say that getting a website to within the top 3 results on Google would be absolutely critical for success. There are definitely enough people out there with problems that they can't resolve themselves when dealing with Poland - heck, look at the bizzare tax system!

What I've never understood is why there isn't more foreign-owned/operated services companies here. I know quite a few people who wouldn't trust a Pole with anything, yet they'd pay good money for a Brit/American to do things for them.

WB, how come you never got into property management? You strike me as being the kind of guy that would do a grand job with foreigners property - taking no **** from anyone and not being afraid to do the job?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solaris_Bus_&_Coach

I can't be bothered to bring up more because you are obviously trolling.

Asseco = mom&pop's, plus a big employee overhead... and makes no real money, I wouldn't touch Asseco's stock with a 10-foot pole.

for instance:
An institution size 1.5 bill in assets would have no more than 35 IT people including the management.

A small software company making up to 200 mill a year would have no more then 350 employees to stay profitable, they would outsource if needed (for bigger contracts).

I worked for Fiserv right out of college (Nasdaq:FISV). Who, in their right mind, would want to work for Asseco ? They pay crap, and no advancement opportunities...It's a dead end job. You get hired as a dev and retire as one.

same for the Polish telecom, how would that even compare to Comcast, At&t or Verison?

You guys gotta be high or something. THis thread is so fing depressing. I'm just gonna stick to Plastic Polack threads instead. Those are way more fun.

Going from over here to over there would be like in this clip below.

Edit:


lol, ok, I'm sorry for bothering you... on this open forum.

I think in terms of genuinely successful Polish companies that have operations abroad I can only think of KGHM. Orlen's forays outside Poland have been disastrous. In any case those are state monopolies. In terms of private business maybe Asseco and LPP but they are shaky in lots of ways.

$70m in profit the first 6 months of '10, that's making money as far as I can tell.

They're a software house, they make real money, and lots of it. They're very well respected in the finance industry.

Let me quote:


If you think those are bad margins, you should stay away from business.


Dunno, you mentioned carriers, I mentioned IT companies.

This thread is about well run companies. Those are well run companies, who have grown completely on their own without big subsidies, and are making a very healthy profit, incredibly lean, and are showing constant growth.

If you use market cap as a guide as to which companies are run well, you're not going to get very far. GM has a huge market cap, Fannie and Freddie as well, so does AIG, Citi....

Yea, for what it's worth, I'd rather put my money into Asseco and see returns than MSFT and see sad faces.

Investing in securities is, a bit, meh. Going to go pull out the dartboard and take up some drunken positions on commodities.

Are you really, really that stupid, or are you just trolling?

TPSA/Orange are owned by France Telecom, who own quite a bit of the world telefony market. So - bringing them up is pointless, because the business isn't Polish owned.