The usage of: oboje, obaj, oba, obie

I understand when to use obaj, oba, obie but I have trouble with oboje. The Słownik PWN claims oboje is only used for persons ("używany wyłącznie w odniesieniu do dwu osób różnej płci i do dwojga dzieci"), but then again one says "oboje drzwi" and not "obie/oba drzwi". What's the rule?

Thanks,
Arnaud

Oboje is for a man and a woman together. Sorry, my knowledge goes no deeper than that

it is also used in reference to children, regardless of their gender.

Well yes, that's what the dictionary says, but in the "drzwi" case, there are neither a man and a woman, nor children.

it's used for a collection of two entities of both genders, children, small animals or (rarely) objects which have only a plural form (e.g. drzwi, spodnie, nożyce, sanie etc)

mind you, "oboje" is also the plural form of "obój" (=oboe) :D

What kind of "oboje" should I use if I want to say "To toaleta i to krzaki"?

You can use "obie", "oboje" etc when both entities are described with one word. You can't use it to describe one entity that has two names or functions.

Maybe you could say "to ma obie cechy: toaleta i krzaki".

I suppose you want to translate something like "It is both a toilet and a bush".

You could say "to zarówno toaleta (jak) i krzaki", "to jednocześnie toaleta (jak) i krzaki".

osiol, for "toaleta" and "krzaki" you can say "dwie toalety" and "dwa krzaki". Toalety and krzaki are countable, from "toaleta" and "krzak"(=bush:)

regards from Kraków:)

hi there
would it not be correct to say that 'oba, obaj' is like saying' i like both of these'.
and obydwoje is like saying i like both of you.

chaza

Merged: Obaj, obie, oboje, oba

This is one of the few grammar points that I just can't get to grips with and I can't seem to find a clear explanation on the internet. Basically if someone could just explain to me when to use each one I would be very grateful!

obaj - both males
obie - both females
oboje - both male and female
oba - both things (neutral nouns)

You've over-simplified things. In fact your advice is wrong.


Park is a masculine noun, but you CANNOT say *obaj parki
Obaj is used by all masculine personal nouns (rzeczowniki męskoosobowe in Polish), used only for describing people.
ex: obaj nauczyciele, obaj panowie, obaj Polacy, obaj koledzy


This is correct. Obie is used for all female nouns (rzeczowniki żeńskie in Polish).
ex: obie nauczycielki, obie panie, obie Polki, obie koleżanki, obie książki


This is over-simplified. You use oboje when there is a group of two people, one male, one female. It's also politically correct to say for example: oboje studentów instead of obaj studenci, because you're not specifying that the two students are masculine.

Also oboje is used with nouns such as drzwi (door), spodnie (pants), nożyce (scissors), sanie (sled) that have no singular form and always appear in the plural, even though the meaning is singular. In grammar these are known by the Latin term pluralia tantum.

One last usage for oboje is for young beings (mostly animals)
ex: oboje kurcząt (chicks), oboje kociąt (kittens), oboje dzieci (children)

Note that in all instances of oboje + a noun the noun is in the Genitive case (dopełniacz), whereas obaj/obie/oba + noun the noun is in the Nominative (mianownik)


This is half right. Oba is used only for neuter (neutral is incorrect) nouns not described above. ex: oba drzewa (trees), oba imiona (names).

It's also used for masculine non-personal nouns. ex: oba koty (cats), oba widelce (forks), oba budynki (buildings)

And since when "park" is a "male"? ;)

Oh,
just "we" is like: obaj, oboje, oba, obydwaj
or: "both of you" sounds better

Ten park... Gramatically it is a masculine noun.

vs


:)