The words "Polszczyzna, Angielszczyzna" could be used in a book on literature, poetry or in some country culture class, but not in an argument between some ordinary people I think. I such eveyday speech we just say "polski, angielski etc." meaning the language.
Od kiedy pracownia umie mówic? miałeś na mysli słowo "pracownica"?
As a non-native speaker I think angielszczyzna, while usually bookish, can work in the context of the story since I've seen it used in kind of... ironic ways.
Well, this has led to a rather long discussion of the phrase "broken English" :)
Broken means a thing parted in some manner or another, A broken branch is a branch once whole but now at least in two pieces, maybe more. That leads to the 1st Sense - and therefore, primary - meaning of the phrase: Broken English/Polish/German/Spanish, etc. where Language A - the language being spoken - is broken-up by words or phrases from Language B used in place of Language A words or phrases the speaker of Language B cannot remember.
That is not to say there are not other terms synonymous to "Broken English" that convey Sense 1 of that phrase as well. It can be used to indicate the poor speaking of a language, but there you are getting down toward Sense 2 or 3 of the phrase, which is less accurate or precise.
Look at the word Demokratia as an example: democracy. The true meaning of this word denotes a republican form of government wherein all citizens eligible to vote form the legislature of the state. Thus, any issue is decided through the popular vote of the voting citizenry. In such a state the only elected officials are magistrates whose role is merely to carry into effect the decisions made by the citizens through their votes.
But, now-a-days democracy is used to indicate any form of republican or pseudo-republican government where a legislative body of some sort makes laws, so long as voters elect the legislators. This is a derived and fallacious use of the word, brought about by common misunderstanding of the concept of democracy.
You will never hear me referring to the U. S. as a democracy, because it is not, and never has been: it is a Federation of States, in fact. A fact of which most of those living here are, by the way, completely unaware. However, if viewed as national republic it could be legitimately called a "Representative Republic." This is why you always see me referring to the girl in the story not as an American, but as a Kentuckian: she is an American in the same manner as is a Canadian, or a Mexican, or a Brazilian, or a Belizean since America is a continent, not a country :)
The Girl in this story is too precise in her manner of speaking and thinking to employ a phrase meaning "broken English" in this case. Thus, I will likely use pidzynowa, which while less likely for a more causal speaker using a more colloquial manner of speaking would more fit her speech and thought patterns.
I am going to use the newly suggested "stary - " phrase as that is better. Thank you.
@Mafektis I have looked up the meaning, and did so when this issue first cropped up. I was trying to point out above that words and phrases are often distorted over time by misuses that become standard, thus changing the meaning of words. The English word "Man" is a good example of that. Originally it was "Mann" and meant strictly an human being regardless of gender. The Old English word Mann translates into Latin not as VIR, but as HVMANVS: Human. A female originally saying "I am a man" was in no way thought to mean she was male: It was the same as her saying, "I am an human/person." in Modern English. Even after the second "n" was dropped in the spelling, the primary meaning of the word "man" continued to be an human being regardless of gender. But, in the 3rd sense it began to take on the meaning of a male human being over time. It shows that way in dictionaries from the late 20th Century. In my copy of Webster's Dictionary from the 1980's it shows as Sense 1: an human being. Sense 2: Humanity in general, mankind. Sense 3: a male human being. But, in my copy of the American Heritage Dictionary, a 21st Century publication, it shows the 1st sense as a male human being.
I am not saying that the term broken English is incorrect, just less correct. If the girl were a native Polka speaking in a more colloquial manner, I would probably use Lamana.
I am open to correction when I make a mistake, because I am human, I do make those sometimes :) Like it or not (and "not" is the answer there).
You can actually see a demonstration of that above, dealing with the sentence, "I bet pidgin English is all you have!" When it was pointed out by Dominic(?)(It's on page 2, it's possible I am misremembering his name, sadly) that "pidgin English is all" was a predicate phrase, I immediately knew he was correct and soon realized what I had been doing wrong and why.
I am writing a character in a story, and I know her mind, her speech-patterns, mannerisms, attitudes, personality and character. I have to stay true to those: I am not Martin Scorsese, whose characters might inexplicably change personalities mid-story (that happened with the villain in Gangs of New York). Despite speaking in the accent of Appalachian English, for example, her grammar is always correct, and her use of words - unless she is being humorous - is always precise and accurate. That is her personality. Others around her sometimes, for example, use "don't" when "doesn't" was correct, but she never does. She almost never says "ain't", either, but most of the other characters do.
Primarily, what I am looking for when seeking a translation is to make certain the word forms are correct, the verbs correctly conjugated, the sentences structured correctly and that she is not using English speech patterns in Polish or French.
A good example of that last is something I mentioned earlier. If one were to express in Shalsharein "He can't help it!" by looking up the correct 3rd Person, Singular, masculine form of "hAvrittei"" ("To cannot"): hAvrissun, then the same for Help, Peirgu adding the exclaimative mood - mun to "peirgumun" then the accusative form of It: Dekt and put them all together as, "hAvrissun peirgumun dekt!" you would sound like an English speaker speaking English using Shalsharein words. A native speaker in that case would use the phrase, "Def' ensamun!", which - as I explained above, means literally "It is his!", which indicates to a Shalsharein speaker the same concept as "He can't help it!" (BTW: the h in hAvrittei/hAvrissun is not sounded, a single aspiration before A indicates a long A, like the final a in Polszczyzna)
Pewnie tak, ale ja bym tak nie powiedział, szczególnie opierdzialając jakiegoś kolesia który mnie wku... Anyways, I just tried to make it sound more natural. Neither mine nor yours version is perfect since colloquial speech cannot be perfect. This is why it is called colloquial.
Pewnie tak, ale ja bym tak nie powiedział, szczególnie opierdzialając jakiegoś kolesia który mnie wku...
But you said...
The words "Polszczyzna, Angielszczyzna" could be used in a book on literature, poetry or in some country culture class, but not in an argument between some ordinary people I think.
... like it was not possible to say that anywhere outside literature, poetry and country culture class. I just prove you wrong. Also I hear Polszczyzna being used quite often in day-to-day speech among my friends and colleagues. Angielszczyzna is indeed quite rare to hear.(still correct and nothing odd though)
I think this is all about played-out on my end, but that was quite a bit for one short paragraph of Polish. :) I think I shall do the remaining few paragraphs through professional paid translation when I can better afford it, just as I shall do with the French.
If I seem a bit long-winded at times it is because I am supporting my position or thinking through examples, not from any intent to bore anyone. Which, I probably did anyway.
