Polish pronounciation of: cz vs ć/ci, sz vs ś/si, ź vs ż and dż vs dź/dzi - how to make these sound diff

This is because either 't' is different. One is hard (normal), the other is soft. Try to say the t, at the same time preparing to start the 'i', but not saying it.

In Polish the soft 't' has evolved into the 'ć' which is articulated higher than the Russian t' and not against the upper teeth as it is in Russian.

Polish though HAS a "mnaki znak" in everyday words such as "panstwo", "lan" etc., yet no "twardy znak", both borrowings of course from Russian:-) Put more like a linguist rather than a lay person, Polish doesn't represent either of these two sounds as a separate letter in their alphabet!

@Chemikiem


Try:
- idzi vs idź;
- źdźbło vs ździwienie.

The difference is quite distinctive.

@Exx217
źdźbło <3

What is 'mnaki znak'? ^^
Anyway, isn't palatalization common for Slavic languages (resulting from Proto Slavic) rather than a 'borrowing'? Just like the soft/hard signs are used in the cyrillic alphabet and Polish uses the Latin alphabet so ...

That's not a word.....

In fact it is a word. What is more, it also has a meaning in Polish.
It's a male first name.

To me that difference is quite apparent.


I find this difficult. I'm sure you're right as you've obviously given a lot of thought to this, perhaps through learning English and how to pronounce words, but I've only ever listened and repeated without giving much thought to where in my mouth my tongue should be positioned, with the exception of when I was learning to roll the letter 'r'. If I find a word particularly difficult I just practise until I get it right ( asking friends to evaluate my progress lol ).

Pleased to hear though that native speakers would swear they pronounce a very short 'i' in biały :-)


For the idzi vs idź example, of course there will be a slight difference in sound because there are no other letters following 'dzi' and ' dź', both combinations are at the end of words and it is obvious that other letters within a word have an effect. Listen to how the 'dzi' combination is pronounced in godzina and dziecko for example, yet the approximate pronunciation for 'dzi' in English correlates to the 'jee' in jeep.

The other example you have given I can't comment on. Those words translate to blush and whack in Google Translate, but if I enter those in English to get the Polish definition up it gives completely different meanings, and therefore I can't click on the microphone to hear what they sound like. I'm still sure though that the other letters in the words have an effect on overall pronunciation.

Lyzko must have meant miagkij znak - this thing 'Ь ' -

The "soft" sign ("mekki" in Polish), precisely, as opposed to the "hard" sign.

miękki

@Chemikiem

źdźbło = blade of grass

Even if 'dzi' and 'dź' are in the middle of the word their pronunciation is and should be different.
The following pairs have different meaning and pronunciation yet very similar structure.

1. gładźcie, budźcie, wadźcie, gnieźdźmy, pogardźmy, zdradźmy
2. gładzicie, budzicie, wadzicie, gnieździmy, pogardzimy, zdradzimy

@Exx217
It seems to me that both sets of examples contain the d͡ʑ sound and the the second set only differs from the first by the additional i sound. Is there more to it that this?

@Ziutek

Yes, you're right. Both versions contain the d͡ʑ sound. But I gave these examples to illustrate my opposite opinion
to the one given by Chemikiem that "The letter combination 'dzi' is pronounced in the same way as the digraph ' dź '".
If the above sentence was true, there should be no difference in the way you pronounce "zdradźmy" and "zdradzimy".

@Exx217

Exx - you are not taking into account words like działa, dzieje, dzianina, Madzia - you actually don't hear i pronounced in these words after dz or dź - in these words i after dz and before another vowel serves only to denote the softness of dz/ that dz turns into dź - you don't pronounce these words as dźjała, dźjeje, dźjanina, Madźja but dźała, dźanina, dźeje, Madźa - so ultimately in these words dzi = dź - so you were both right and both wrong :P

@gumishu
Yeah, I wasn't aware of the fact that I didn't hear that 'i'.
Thank you, you've just ruin my whole life. :)

heh, you are funny ;)

As an example. I nearly forgot "miekki":-)

Thanks, gumishu!

This is exactly what I was saying in my post # 40 on the previous page.


It would have been a miracle if i was completely right ;)


So many times I've felt like that lol, best get used to that feeling ;) It gets even better when all the Poles on here start disagreeing with each other, such is the complexity of the Polish language! The one thing i've learned is that there is never ever a simple answer to what on the surface appears to be a simple language question. Good luck with your learning.

Polish is admittedly, at least phonetically/phonologically, intricate. Then again, the English Orthographic Nightmare is proverbial!