Poland in different languages?

Can anyone here explain to me the origins (or the original meaning) of the name Boszermeny (or was it Boszormeny?) (i don't have those accented umlauts of Hungarian script)

it is definitely the source of an old Polish word bisurman (a muslim - still it was pretty derogatory in Polish language) - later secondary meanings developed for bisurman (like a brat)

Yes, you are totally right. Böszörmény meant muslim, ismaelita.

but did it have any different meaning in Hungarian before it started being applied to muslims or was it a loanword (with sound changes probably) from some other language - from what i have learned from the Boszormeny wikipedia entry it was used long before Hungarians met with Oguz Turks of Turkey

I know this is may be a question without an answer in our present knowledge

list of names for Poland: pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Polska

بولندا polanda ( po arabsku ) :)

Shouldn't tht be Bulanda ?

ፖላንድ in Amharic.

Probably, Hungary Christian Kingdom preferred to call them Boszormeny, close to Besermyan, a Finno Ugric group when they try to convert/integrate those warriors they hired as employee to Christianity.

so Besermyans were some Finno Ugric muslim group/tribe ???

well - actually wikipedia states that some muslims were part of the Magyar confederation when they moved from Volga basin across the Ukrainian steppes to middle Europe - they could have been some division of Volga Bulghars

This is an interesting thread. However, I beleive I can bring this discussion to an informed conclusion.

The term "besermyans" is probably a corruption of the Hungarian word "Besenyo" which means Pechenegs or in Russian/Polish PATZINAKS.

These people were not Finno -Ugric but were Kipchak Turkic speakers who lived to the east of the Magyars (Hungarians) before the Hungarians entered the Danubian Plain which eventually became Hungary. These Pechenegs were a constant source of conflict with the Hungarians and their raid and depredations led the Magyars to continue to move westward in the 8-10th century. They settled to the east of the Magyars and maintained a tribal confedracy. At times their soldiers served as mercenaries for Kiev, the Byzantine empire, the Bulgarian state and at times warred against each of these powers. Their power, which was formidable was broken decisively by the Byzantines, Cumans and Magyars at the battle of Levounion (?) sometimes in the 10 th century. They suffered a series of military reversals and were finally literally exterminated as a people about 75 years later again by the Byzantines, Cumans and Hungarians. At about the time of their initial decline some Pechengs adopted Islam and tried to force that faith on the pagan Pechenegs, which lead to a civil war and further weakened them.

At the very last, large numbers of Pecheneg refugees were allowed to serve as border guards for the nascent Hungarian kingdom and they were assimilated into the Hungarian people. Today there are still Turkic place names in Hungary and there are many people with the last name Besenye denoting a Pecheneg antecedent.

I don't know if besermyans means Pechenegs, but you are right pechenegs and cumans are Turkic tribes.

Also, we Turks think that Turks and Magyars may not be brothers but they are cousins for sure. Not only our ancestors Huns, Avars lived in that lands as well as Cumans and Pecenegs but also Turks and Magyars lived together and mixed in today's Russian steps. No need to mention 150 years of Ottoman rule in Hungary.

I'm happy to see some people from Hungary! I'm Hungarian too and learning Polish.
Cześć everyone :)

szveronika

cześć Veronika :)

Hungarians in PL? What a rarity!!! You are MOST welcome to PL honey! because we love HU folk here!